Challenge Math Challenge - March 2019

  • #91
wow! holy-choochoo! I didn't think of adding the exponents!

well done! thank you!

so the first term is really 2, not sqrt(2)... huh... I guess I'm not graduating to Ant-Padawan level 2 at all! oh no!
 
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  • #92
fbs7 said:
wow! holy-choochoo! I didn't think of adding the exponents!
This is not really true. You took the logarithm of an assumed limit and did exactly this: added the exponents - now a floor below, which made a better typeset.
 
  • #93
a-ha! thank you! so I'm calling myself Ant-Padawn Level 1 1/2.. no... 1 1/3

And I used what you advised about Polynomial Division... errr... Thingie.. that was very smart!
 
  • #94
On Yoda-level Question 4:

The question is beyond my level, but I'm trying to at least understand the item (a); I'm probably not reading the notation correctly, though:

##x*(y*z) = x*(1/2y+1/2z) = 1/2(x*y)+1/2(x*z) =##
##1/2(1/2x+3/8y+1/8z) + 1/2(1/2x+1/2z) =##
##1/2x + 3/16y+5/16z##

##(x*y)*z = (1/2x+3/8y+1/8z)*z =1/2(x*z)+3/8(y*z)+1/8(z*z) =##
##1/2(1/2x+1/2z) + 3/8(1/2y+1/2z) + 1/8(z) =##
##1/4x+3/16y+9/16z##

It doesn't seem to be associative, so I'm making some mistake. Tried as I could, still can't see my mistake.
 
  • #95
fbs7 said:
On Yoda-level Question 4:

The question is beyond my level, but I'm trying to at least understand the item (a); I'm probably not reading the notation correctly, though:

##x*(y*z) = x*(1/2y+1/2z) = 1/2(x*y)+1/2(x*z) =##
##1/2(1/2x+3/8y+1/8z) + 1/2(1/2x+1/2z) =##
##1/2x + 3/16y+5/16z##

##(x*y)*z = (1/2x+3/8y+1/8z)*z =1/2(x*z)+3/8(y*z)+1/8(z*z) =##
##1/2(1/2x+1/2z) + 3/8(1/2y+1/2z) + 1/8(z) =##
##1/4x+3/16y+9/16z##

It doesn't seem to be associative, ...
Correct.
... so ...
Wrong.
... I'm making some mistake. Tried as I could, still can't see my mistake.
Me neither. Why do you expect associativity? It is an example for a non associative multiplication, i.e. a non associative algebra. Lie algebras or the Octonians are other prominent examples of non associative algebras. Both play important roles in physics, the former a bit more than the latter.
 
  • #96
Oh, good Lord! I was trying to find a way to prove that was associative, instead of answering if that was associative or not! I'm such an idiot.

By the way, I came with a property of an algebra A on vectors over a basis ##x_i## such that

##x_i*x_j = l_{ijk}*x_k##

that would make it associative; without taking much space, for three vectors u, v, w in Einstein's notation:

##u = u_i*x_i; v = v_i*x_i; w = w_i*x_i; ##

then ##u*(v*w) = (u*v)*w## makes ##u_a*x_a*(v_b*x_b*w_c*x_c) = (u_d*x_d*v_e*x_e*w_e)*w_f*x_f##

as ##u_?, v_?, w_?## are all free variables, then ##d=a, e=b, f=c##, and ## x_a*(x_b*x_c)=(x_a*x_b)*x_c##, that is the algebra is associative if the multiplication of the basis is associative; then, replacing with the expression for multiplication of the basis:

##x_a*(x_b*x_c) = x_a*(l_{bcg}*x_g) = l_{bcg}*x_a*x_g = l_{bcg}*l_{agh}*x_h##
##(x_a*x_b)*x_c = (l_{abi}*x_i)*x_c = l_{abi}*x_i*x_c = l_{abi}*l_{icj}*x_j##

as ##x_h## and ##x_j## are independent (that is, I assume they are independent), then ##h=j##; then, eliminating ##x_h## and renaming ##i=g## and ##d=h## to make it more readable,

##l_{abi}*l_{icd} = l_{bci} * l_{aid}## for any ##a, b, c, d##

And that's where my skill ends; now, question on that... this seems like a tensor operation of some kind, is that true? That is, is ##l_{ijk}## a 3-tensor, and the expression above is a tensor operation of some kind?
 
Last edited:
  • #97
Every bilinear multiplication can be written as a tensor. See the example of Strassen's algorithm here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/what-is-a-tensor/
which is an example how matrix multiplication is written as a tensor.

As long as you do not put any additional restraints on ##l_{ijk}## as in the case of genetic algebras (or any other class of algebras), as long do you have an arbitrary algebra.
 
  • #98
Thank you!
 

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