Measuring Friction at a curved surface

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for measuring friction between a metal block with a quarter circle curve and a metal roller that contacts it. The focus is on practical measurement techniques, including the use of sensors and motor configurations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the friction coefficient is highly dependent on lubrication and surface contamination.
  • Another participant proposes a formula for calculating the friction coefficient, Cfrict, based on the torque required and the applied force.
  • A participant expresses interest in practical measurement systems, specifically asking about using a reactive torque sensor to measure frictional torque.
  • It is mentioned that attaching the motor directly to the cylinder shaft could allow for measuring the torque against the mountings, eliminating the need for slip rings.
  • One participant acknowledges the suggestion of using force transducers on the mountings as a cost-effective solution for measuring torque.
  • A later reply discusses a configuration where the motor is mounted co-axially with the roller shaft, simplifying the measurement setup with a single force sensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the feasibility of using torque sensors and force transducers for measuring friction, but there are multiple approaches discussed without a consensus on the best method.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully explored the implications of lubrication and surface conditions on measurements, and there may be unresolved considerations regarding the specific configurations of sensors and motors.

bartrocs
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Hi, if I have a block of metal with a quarter circle curve cut out of it, and a metal roller of matching radius that contacts this curved piece, what are some ways I could go about measuring the friction between these two surfaces? The roller is fixed and the block is pushed into it with a horizontal force. See the image for clarification:
XbhVSR6.jpg
 

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The friction coefficient will be highly dependent on lubrication and surface contamination.

To measure the coefficient, Cfrict, you need to rotate the cylinder. The torque required, Ftorque, needs to be corrected for the radius, Ftorque / r, then the ratio with your Fapp computed.
Cfrict = Ftorque / ( r * Fapp )
 
of course, I understand the theory, I was probably not clear enough but I am interested in the actual system of measurement, for example, if I had some motor driving a shaft with the drum on it. If I put a reactive torque (torsional) sensor inline between the drum and the motor, would that work to measure the frictional torque?
 
bartrocs said:
If I put a reactive torque (torsional) sensor inline between the drum and the motor, would that work to measure the frictional torque?
Yes.
But if instead you attached the motor directly to the cylinder shaft, you could then measure the torque of the motor against it's mountings. The torque gauge is then not rotating, so you need no slip rings for instrumentation cables to the gauge.
 
Baluncore said:
But if instead you attached the motor directly to the cylinder shaft, you could then measure the torque of the motor against it's mountings. The torque gauge is then not rotating, so you need no slip rings for instrumentation cables to the gauge.

Perfect! I did not think of that. It would probably be a more cost effective solution as I could use force transducers on the mountings and measure torque that way. Thanks for your help
 
bartrocs said:
I could use force transducers on the mountings and measure torque that way.
The motor could be mounted on a shaft co-axial with the roller shaft. Then only one force sensor is needed at the far end of a torque arm attached to the motor casing. So simple.
 

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