Measuring velocity and interference?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of measuring the velocity of an electron on its position and the resulting effects on interference patterns, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore various interpretations of measurement, the nature of observables, and specific experimental setups like the Penning trap and double slit experiments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether measuring the velocity of an electron leads to a collapse of its position or if uncertainty remains.
  • There is a suggestion that the way the velocity is measured can influence the outcome, with some methods involving position measurement and others not.
  • One participant argues that measuring the electron's position before it enters a double slit does not eliminate the possibility of it creating an interference pattern.
  • Concerns are raised about presupposing a collapse interpretation in quantum mechanics, with a preference for focusing on observable phenomena instead.
  • The Penning trap is discussed as a method for determining velocity, but there is contention regarding whether it actually determines the particle's velocity or merely relates to internal parameters of the wave function.
  • Another participant asserts that the measured image current in the Penning trap is proportional to velocity, while another challenges this claim, stating it does not correspond to a velocity observable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of measuring velocity and position, with no consensus reached on whether such measurements lead to a collapse of the wave function or affect interference patterns. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the Penning trap's role in measuring velocity.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity on measurement methods and the definitions of observables in quantum mechanics, indicating that assumptions about collapse interpretations may complicate the discussion.

joegibs
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If I measured the velocity of an electron what happens to its position? Does it collapse into a specific position or is it still uncertain?
Here's a thought experiment... we measure the velocity of an electron and then send it through the double slit at the same time. Does the electron still create an interference pattern?
 
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joegibs said:
If I measured the velocity of an electron what happens to its position? Does it collapse into a specific position or is it still uncertain?

The way you are asking the question presupposes a collapse interpretation. That's not a good idea. It's much better to focus on the things that are not dependent on your choice of interpretation.

Also, velocity and position are observables. It's a good idea to keep observables in QM conceptually distinct from the wave function/state of the system (in this case, the electron).

All that said, before your question can be answered, you need to specify how you are measuring the electron's velocity. There are ways of doing it that involve measuring the electron's position, and there are other ways that don't. The answer to your question depends on which way you pick.
 
PeterDonis said:
All that said, before your question can be answered, you need to specify how you are measuring the electron's velocity. There are ways of doing it that involve measuring the electron's position, and there are other ways that don't. The answer to your question depends on which way you pick.

What about in the penning trap, does it collapse the position in order to find the velocity? the experiment does effectively determine
the particle's velocity, since the measured image current is proportional
to this parameter.
 
PeterDonis said:
The way you are asking the question presupposes a collapse interpretation. That's not a good idea. It's much better to focus on the things that are not dependent on your choice of interpretation.

Also, velocity and position are observables. It's a good idea to keep observables in QM conceptually distinct from the wave function/state of the system (in this case, the electron).

All that said, before your question can be answered, you need to specify how you are measuring the electron's velocity. There are ways of doing it that involve measuring the electron's position, and there are other ways that don't. The answer to your question depends on which way you pick.
The penning trap shoots radio frequencies at the particle in so it can create side bands to the particles harmonic motion
 
joegibs said:
If I measured the velocity of an electron what happens to its position? Does it collapse into a specific position or is it still uncertain?
Here's a thought experiment... we measure the velocity of an electron and then send it through the double slit at the same time. Does the electron still create an interference pattern?

Yes, it will still create an interference pattern. Measuring where the electron is BEFORE it enters a double slit doesn't remove the superposition of paths that the electron can take at the slit.

So I can use something such as a loop of wire, and wait for a signal in that loop, because that tells me that an electron has passed through it (thus, giving me a position of the electron. After that, it can do whatever it wants, such as going into a double slit and doing its thing.

In particle accelerators, we do this all the time where we make a "non-destructive" determination of electron position in the accelerator beam pipe, either by using BPMs (beam positioning monitors), or ICTs (integrated charge transformers).

Zz.
 
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joegibs said:
What about in the penning trap, does it collapse the position in order to find the velocity?

Once again, you should not be asking questions in a way that presupposes a collapse interpretation.

joegibs said:
the experiment does effectively determine
the particle's velocity, since the measured image current is proportional
to this parameter

It's not proportional to any velocity observable, as far as I can tell, so no, the experiment does not "determine the particle's velocity". In other words, the operator that the Penning trap realizes is not, as far as I can tell, a velocity or momentum operator, or anything equivalent to it.

The term "velocity" is used in some discussions of the trap (or related terms like "classical trajectory"), but it seems to refer to an internal parameter of the wave function, not to an observable.
 

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