Mirror image inversion in the 4th dimension.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of mirror image inversion in the fourth dimension, particularly focusing on the implications of such an inversion for an asymmetrical being and their environment. Participants explore theoretical scenarios involving dimensional reflections and their effects on perception and physical characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a 4D inversion would result in an asymmetrical being returning with their physical features flipped, but their perception of their environment might remain unchanged.
  • Others argue that reflecting a 2D being through the 3rd dimension results in no observable change from the being's perspective, as their right and left features would still align with their perception.
  • A later reply questions whether the physical layout of the being's brain and body would also be inverted, suggesting that molecular changes could occur, potentially affecting their health.
  • Some participants clarify that if everything in the 2D world is reflected, then nothing would appear different, emphasizing the symmetry of such transformations.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of reflection versus rotation in higher dimensions, with some participants suggesting that reflection might not lead to any observable changes in the 2D being's experience.
  • One participant highlights that if only the room were reflected while the being remained unchanged, the being would notice a difference, indicating that the context of reflection matters.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether a 4D inversion would lead to observable changes in the being's environment or perception. There is no consensus on the implications of such transformations, and multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the complexities of dimensional reflections and the potential for changes in physical properties, but the discussion does not resolve the implications of these transformations or the underlying assumptions about dimensionality.

  • #31
BruceW said:
also, there are biological molecules which occur mostly in one 'handedness'. So if you got flipped, while the rest of the world remained the same, then the biological molecules in the rest of the world would be the wrong way around! This might mean that you couldn't digest any food, e.t.c. I don't know much biology, so I am not certain, but it seems like you would have a hard time surviving in a world which you a 'flipped' relative to!

You'd beg the 4-D creature to flip you back.
 
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  • #32
BruceW said:
also, there are biological molecules which occur mostly in one 'handedness'. So if you got flipped, while the rest of the world remained the same, then the biological molecules in the rest of the world would be the wrong way around! This might mean that you couldn't digest any food, e.t.c. I don't know much biology, so I am not certain, but it seems like you would have a hard time surviving in a world which you a 'flipped' relative to!

our enzymes aren't symmetrical right? :-p
 
  • #33
BruceW said:
err. maybe think about what happens to a 2d person, when we reflect him through our 3rd dimension. his right hand becomes his left, and his right eye becomes his left, so from his perspective, he looks the same. Also, his (2d) room flips in a similar way, so from his perspective, the room looks the same as well.

So in conclusion, everything should appear to stay the same?

That's not how reflection in a mirror works.

If you stand in front of a mirror and raise your right hand, your image in the mirror raises the hand on the same side. Do you have a ring on that hand (or are lopsided) then you see the ring hand being raised. Lie down in front of the mirror, your top (now, say, your right hand side) is your image's top. Raise your top hand and your image raises the same hand.

What is reversed is depth. As you approach the mirror, moving "north" say, your image gets closer to the front of the mirror but from the other side. Your image is moving "south," just the opposite. Similarly everything in the room with you.

Or to put it another way:

^
| y-axis on real side
|
|_______> x-axis on real side

===================== mirror

_______> x-axis on image side
|
| y-axis on image side
|
v

The x-axis is imaged pointing the same way. The y-axis is imaged reversed.
Dan
 
  • #34
I don't understand what you are disagreeing with. I agree with what you are saying. When we do a reflection, the person's right hand gets mapped to his left hand and his right eye to his left eye. That is what I meant. In your example, we replace y with -y and x stays the same. So the point that was his right hand becomes his left hand
 
  • #35
BruceW said:
I don't understand what you are disagreeing with. I agree with what you are saying. When we do a reflection, the person's right hand gets mapped to his left hand and his right eye to his left eye. That is what I meant. In your example, we replace y with -y and x stays the same. So the point that was his right hand becomes his left hand

yup.
 
  • #36
It is relative. If I were to be flipped in 4D into a mirror image of myself: 1) I would remain unchanged to myself, but it would appear that the world was backwards. 2) Anyone observing me would see me turned into a mirror image of who I once was.
 
  • #37
jbriggs444 said:
Not any weirder than looking out the train window and thinking that it could just as well be the landscape moving past. The unexpected bit is finding that there actually is an experimental test that can detect chirality reversal.
The concept of relative motion is easy to grasp, but relative chirality? That's mind-blowing.
 

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