Product Rule for Derivatives of Theta and Time Functions

In summary, the conversation is discussing the use of calculus of variations to solve a problem involving a function of theta and time. The question asks if the product rule can be applied in this scenario, and the response suggests that it would be a good approach. However, there is some confusion about the meaning of the operator \frac{\delta}{\delta \theta}, with one person suggesting it could represent total variation instead of a derivative. The original poster also mentions that they have posted the full problem on a forum for further discussion.
  • #1
Ultimâ
35
0
This is a bit weird, both are functions of theta (and time) ... so I assume the operator is on both ... is it a case of applying the product rule?

[tex]
\frac{\delta}{\delta \theta}(\dot{\theta} cos\theta)
[/tex]
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
I would say product rule looks good.
 
  • #3
Thanks for the input, will give it a go
 
  • #4
Are you assuming here that [itex]\delta()/\delta[/itex] is a derivative? I would be more inclined to think it means "total variation".
 
  • #5
Ultimâ said:
This is a bit weird, both are functions of theta (and time) ... so I assume the operator is on both ... is it a case of applying the product rule?

[tex]
\frac{\delta}{\delta \theta}(\dot{\theta} cos\theta)
[/tex]

Hi Ultimâ! :smile:

If this is calculus of variations, doesn't [tex]\frac{\delta}{\delta \theta}[/tex] mean that you assume that [tex]\dot{\theta}[/tex] is independent of [tex]\theta[/tex], so that:

[tex]\frac{\delta}{\delta \theta}(\dot{\theta} cos\theta)\,=\,-\dot{\theta} sin\theta[/tex] ? :confused:
 
  • #6
It would be nice to think it was that simple tiny-tim, but I fear [tex] \dot{\theta}[/tex] is related to changes in [tex] \theta[/tex] even for small variations. HallsofIvy, I'm not familiar with using the total variation approach, but it is part of a Jacobian so I would assume it was a derivative.

I've just posted the full problem here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1731700#post1731700

(I know cross posting is frowned upon, but I was trying split the problem down into simpler components)
 

1. What is a derivative?

A derivative is a mathematical concept that represents the rate of change of a function at a specific point. It can also be thought of as the slope of a curve at a particular point.

2. How do you find the derivative of a function?

To find the derivative of a function, you can use the rules of differentiation, such as the power rule, product rule, quotient rule, and chain rule. These rules allow you to find the derivative of a function by manipulating its algebraic expression.

3. What is the purpose of finding derivatives?

Derivatives are useful in many areas of science and engineering, as they help us understand and analyze the behavior of functions. They can be used to calculate rates of change, determine maximum and minimum values, and solve optimization problems.

4. Can derivatives be negative?

Yes, derivatives can be negative. A negative derivative indicates that the function is decreasing at a particular point, while a positive derivative indicates that the function is increasing.

5. Is there a limit to the number of derivatives a function can have?

No, there is no limit to the number of derivatives a function can have. A function can have an infinite number of derivatives, known as higher-order derivatives, which represent the rate of change of the previous derivative.

Similar threads

  • Differential Equations
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • Differential Geometry
Replies
9
Views
416
Replies
8
Views
235
  • Differential Equations
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
734
  • Mechanics
Replies
17
Views
186
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
7
Views
216
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
14
Views
1K
Back
Top