Multivariable limit definition question

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of second partial derivatives in the context of multivariable calculus, specifically focusing on the continuity and limit definitions of partial derivatives as presented in Taylor's advanced calculus. The original poster is attempting to find the second mixed partial derivative of a function at a specific point, encountering difficulties in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to compute the second partial derivatives and questions their calculations regarding limits. They explore the continuity of the function and the implications of its definitions at the origin.
  • Some participants suggest checking for potential typos in the limit expressions and reconsidering the approach using polar coordinates.
  • Others raise questions about the correspondence between limits as variables approach zero and the implications for the calculations involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and suggestions for alternative approaches, such as using polar coordinates. There is acknowledgment of potential errors in calculations, and some participants are exploring the implications of these errors on the results.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of continuity conditions for the function and the specific definitions of limits as they relate to the computation of partial derivatives. There is a recognition of the need to clarify assumptions about variable behavior as they approach zero.

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Homework Statement



I'm reading through Taylor's advanced calculus and came across this question in section 7.2 :

http://gyazo.com/6b0c5a2e4e605ff77bf6584eb3295948

Homework Equations



The definition of the partial of f with respect to some variable at some point (a,b), let's say the partial with respect to x of some f(x,y) would be :

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (a, b) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(a+h, b) - f(a, b)}{h}

The Attempt at a Solution



Okay, so the question wants me to compute the second partials given the conditions on f.

So first I note that f is continuous everywhere for x,y ≠ 0. I also note that f(x,0) = f(0,y) = f(0,0) = 0 has been defined nicely for me as to make my function continuous at (0,0).

I suppose first that I'll show that \frac{∂^2f}{∂y∂x} = -1. So I first have to do a subsidiary calculation to find the first partial with respect to x.

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (0, 0) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(h, 0) - f(0, 0)}{h} = \lim_{h→0} \frac{0 - 0}{h} = 0

Okay, that was not so bad since f was nicely defined for us. Now here comes my problem when I try to find the second partial. Note that when I use subscripts I refer to the partial of the function with respect to that variable. So f_x = \frac{∂f}{∂x}.

\frac{∂^2f}{∂y∂x} (0, 0) = \lim_{k→0} \frac{f_x(0, k) - f_x(0, k)}{k} (***)

I'm labeling this equation (***) so I can return to it after I calculate fx(0,k). Now to calculate it :

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (0, k) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(h, k) - f(0, k)}{h} = \lim_{h→0} \frac{h^2arctan(k/h) - h^2arctan(h/k)}{h} = 0

Now this produces a big problem when I plug it back into (***) as I don't get the answer of -1 which I'm apparently supposed to get :

\frac{∂^2f}{∂y∂x} (0, 0) = \lim_{k→0} \frac{f_x(0, k) - f_x(0, k)}{k} = \lim_{k→0} \frac{0 - 0}{k} = 0

What am I doing wrong here? Have I missed something or have I done a calculation wrong?
 
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Zondrina said:

Homework Statement



I'm reading through Taylor's advanced calculus and came across this question in section 7.2 :

http://gyazo.com/6b0c5a2e4e605ff77bf6584eb3295948

Homework Equations



The definition of the partial of f with respect to some variable at some point (a,b), let's say the partial with respect to x of some f(x,y) would be :

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (a, b) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(a+h, b) - f(a, b)}{h}

The Attempt at a Solution



Okay, so the question wants me to compute the second partials given the conditions on f.

So first I note that f is continuous everywhere for x,y ≠ 0. I also note that f(x,0) = f(0,y) = f(0,0) = 0 has been defined nicely for me as to make my function continuous at (0,0).

I suppose first that I'll show that \frac{∂^2f}{∂y∂x} = -1. So I first have to do a subsidiary calculation to find the first partial with respect to x.

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (0, 0) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(h, 0) - f(0, 0)}{h} = \lim_{h→0} \frac{0 - 0}{h} = 0

Okay, that was not so bad since f was nicely defined for us. Now here comes my problem when I try to find the second partial. Note that when I use subscripts I refer to the partial of the function with respect to that variable. So f_x = \frac{∂f}{∂x}.

\frac{∂^2f}{∂y∂x} (0, 0) = \lim_{k→0} \frac{f_x(0, k) - f_x(0, k)}{k} (***)

I'm labeling this equation (***) so I can return to it after I calculate fx(0,k). Now to calculate it :

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (0, k) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(h, k) - f(0, k)}{h} = \lim_{h→0} \frac{h^2arctan(k/h) - h^2arctan(h/k)}{h} = 0

I think there is a typo here. The last limit should be

\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \frac{h^2arctan(k/h)-k^2arctan(h/k)}{h}

This limit is not zero, I think.

Now this produces a big problem when I plug it back into (***) as I don't get the answer of -1 which I'm apparently supposed to get :

\frac{∂^2f}{∂y∂x} (0, 0) = \lim_{k→0} \frac{f_x(0, k) - f_x(0, k)}{k} = \lim_{k→0} \frac{0 - 0}{k} = 0

What am I doing wrong here? Have I missed something or have I done a calculation wrong?
 
micromass said:
I think there is a typo here. The last limit should be

\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \frac{h^2arctan(k/h)-k^2arctan(h/k)}{h}

This limit is not zero, I think.

You sir, have made my day. That will teach me to speed through my calculations too quickly haha.

So really I would get :

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (0, k) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(h, k) - f(0, k)}{h} = \lim_{h→0} \frac{h^2arctan(k/h) - k^2arctan(h/k)}{h}

and switching to polar co-ordinates ill presume will give me my desired result?
 
Yes, try to work in polar coordinates. I think that'll make things easy.
 
micromass said:
Yes, try to work in polar coordinates. I think that'll make things easy.

Hmm I've hit a hitch in my calculations again :

For h=rcosθ and k = rsinθ we get :

\frac{∂f}{∂x} (0, k) = \lim_{h→0} \frac{f(h, k) - f(0, k)}{h} = \lim_{h→0} \frac{h^2arctan(k/h) - k^2arctan(h/k)}{h} = \lim_{r→0} \frac{r^2cos^2θarctan(tanθ) - r^2sin^2arctan(cotθ)}{rcosθ}

Which tends to 0 as r tends to 0?
 
Hmmm, maybe going over in polar coordinates was not a good idea after all. The problem is that h\rightarrow 0 doesn't exactly correspond to r\rightarrow 0.

I actually don't think it is too hard to calculate the original limit explicitely:

\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \frac{h^2arctan(k/h)-k^2 arctan(h/k)}{h^2}=\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} h \cdot arctan(k/h) - k^2\lim_{h\rightarrow 0} \frac{arctan(h/k)}{h}

The first limit is 0 (why?). The second limit can be calculated by l'hospital's rule.
 
The first limit is 0 because of the squeeze theorem. After applying L'Hospital's rule I get (2h)arctan(k/h) - k and as h→0, (2h)arctan(k/h) - k → -k just like I wanted.
 

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