Nabla calculus and conservative forces

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on demonstrating that the magnetic force is conservative only when the time derivative of the magnetic field, dB/dt, equals zero. The key equation used is F=q[E+(v×B)], with the condition for conservativeness defined as ∇×F=0. The participant attempts to manipulate the equation ∇×[E+(v×B)] and applies Maxwell's equation ∇×E=-∂B/∂t to derive necessary conditions for conservativeness. The algebraic complexity arises when trying to simplify the expression v(∇⋅B)-B(∇⋅v)+(B⋅∇)v-(v⋅∇)B=0.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of vector calculus, specifically curl and divergence operations.
  • Familiarity with Maxwell's equations, particularly ∇×E=-∂B/∂t.
  • Knowledge of magnetic force equations, including F=q[E+(v×B)].
  • Basic proficiency in algebraic manipulation of vector fields.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of dB/dt=0 on magnetic fields and conservative forces.
  • Explore vector calculus identities, particularly ∇×(A×B) and its applications.
  • Investigate the physical significance of magnetic fields not influencing particle speed and energy.
  • Review examples of conservative and non-conservative forces in electromagnetism.
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, particularly those studying electromagnetism, vector calculus, and the properties of conservative forces in magnetic fields.

KayDee01
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1. The problem statement

I'm trying to show that the magnetic force is only conservative if dB/dt=0

Homework Equations



F=q[E+(v[itex]\times[/itex]B)]

Conservative if ∇[itex]\times[/itex]F=0

∇[itex]\times[/itex](A[itex]\times[/itex]B)=A(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]B)-B(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]A)+(B[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)A-(A[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)B

Maxwells equation: ∇[itex]\times[/itex]E=-∂B/∂t

The Attempt at a Solution



So the magnetic force field is conservative if
∇[itex]\times[/itex][E+(v[itex]\times[/itex]B)]=0
=∇[itex]\times[/itex]E+∇[itex]\times[/itex](v[itex]\times[/itex]B)
=-∂B/∂t+v(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]B)-B(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]v)+(B[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)v-(v[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)B

So from here I know that I need to show:
v(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]B)-B(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]v)+(B[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)v-(v[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)B=0

But when I write it out in all its components I get lost in the algebra. And then it got me thinking, if that equals zero, why doesn't ∇[itex]\times[/itex](A[itex]\times[/itex]B) always equal zero.
I know there's a simple answer to this as we did it in lectures but I can't seem to find it in my notes anywhere.
 
Last edited:
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You cannot assign a scalar potential to the magnetic field. You can show that the magnetic field does not influence the speed (and therefore the energy) of the particle, however. This is related to ##\vec{v} \cdot \vec{F}##.
 

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