Need help looking up thermal properties

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the specific enthalpy of water vapor/steam at a pressure of 4.8 MPa and a temperature of 40 degrees Celsius, specifically focusing on the conditions of a saturated liquid within the context of a Rankine cycle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the definition of specific enthalpy for a saturated liquid and question the accuracy of values obtained from textbooks and online calculators. There is a discussion about the need for additional information regarding the state of the fluid and the implications of pressure and temperature changes in the Rankine cycle.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering various interpretations of the enthalpy values and discussing the methods for calculating enthalpy based on the state of the fluid. Some guidance has been provided regarding the use of specific volume and pressure differentials, though there is no explicit consensus on the correct approach or final value.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential missing information regarding the quality of the fluid and the specific conditions of the Rankine cycle, which may affect the calculations. The original poster indicates confusion over the textbook example and the online calculator results, suggesting a need for clarification on the methods used.

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Homework Statement


I'm trying to look up the specific enthalpy (h) at 4.8Mpa and 40 degrees celsius for water vapor/steam. It should be a saturated liquid.


The Attempt at a Solution


I know the specific enthalpy should be ~171.78KJ/Kg but I can't for the life of me figure out how the textbook example comes up with that.
The value of specific enthalpy for a saturated liquid at 40ºC is 167.54KJ/Kg, obviously not quite right.. Any assistance would be great, probably a quick easy answer of something I'm missing / don't know.
 
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If it was stated that it is a saturated liquid then your enthalpy would just be the hf value at 40C or 4.8 MPa.

If they did not state that it was a liquid, you might need to find the quality, x, and find the enthalpy using the equation h=hf+xhfg
 
rock.freak667 said:
If it was stated that it is a saturated liquid then your enthalpy would just be the hf value at 40C or 4.8 MPa.

If they did not state that it was a liquid, you might need to find the quality, x, and find the enthalpy using the equation h=hf+xhfg
I guess a little more information may be needed.. This is part of a problem dealing with a simple rankine cycle, however the example also accounts for pump/turbine efficiencies and pressure/temperature drops along the lines. It gives the pressure directly out of the pump as 5Mpa and once the working fluid has reached the boiler (just before going in, this is point 3) it is now at the 4.8Mpa & 40ºC.

Because it just came out of the pump and has yet to go into the boiler I know for a fact that the fluid is still a saturated liquid. As well as that piece of information, if you enter the 4.8/40º into an online thermo table it will tell you the enthalpy is 171.78 and the quality is N/A. This is an example out of the book, the auther just failed to explain how they arrived at this number.

Online thermo calc for steam/water I found while trying to figure this out earlier.. 1bar=100kPa, so my pressure of interest is 48bar.
http://www.steamtablesonline.com/steam97web.aspx


Thanks for the quick reply!
 
Oh you mean the point is outside of the curve if that is the case, then I think you need to use
dh=v dP

[tex]\int_3 ^4 dh = \int_3 ^4 vdP[/tex]

[tex]h_4 - h_3 = v_3 (P_4-P_3)[/tex]

where v3 is the specific volume at 3 (vf). Try that.
 
rock.freak667 said:
Oh you mean the point is outside of the curve if that is the case, then I think you need to use
dh=v dP

[tex]\int_3 ^4 dh = \int_3 ^4 vdP[/tex]

[tex]h_4 - h_3 = v_3 (P_4-P_3)[/tex]

where v3 is the specific volume at 3 (vf). Try that.
I'm assuming you mean where state three is the values at saturation and 4 is what I'm looking for?

Substituting with that:
[tex]h_4 - 167.54 = .001008(4800-7.384)[/tex]
[tex]h_4=172.371KJ/Kg[/tex]

Still not quite the 171.77 they have, but its a lot closer then what I found. I'm curious how the online thermo calculator goes about doing it..
 
I am not exactly sure how the calculators do it. That is how I learned to do the basic Rakine cycle. Point 4 was usually calculated using the formula I gave you. I do not know if the calculators use a different method or formula.
 

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