Negative frequencies in spectrum analysis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of negative frequencies in spectrum analysis, particularly in the context of Fourier transforms. Participants explore the physical significance of negative frequencies, their implications for real and complex signals, and their role in defining bandwidth.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the concept of negative frequencies and their physical significance, questioning how one can conceptualize a negative frequency.
  • It is suggested that for real signals, negative frequencies can be ignored as they mirror positive frequencies, while for complex signals, they represent a different rotation in the complex plane.
  • One participant argues that negative frequencies can be understood as relative positions on a spectral plot, similar to negative distances on a number line.
  • Concerns are raised about the definition of bandwidth, specifically why negative frequencies are included when calculating bandwidth, which is traditionally defined as ranging from -fm to fm.
  • Some participants propose that negative frequencies do not contribute new information about the wave, as they are equivalent to their positive counterparts, and suggest a potential adjustment in the definition of bandwidth.
  • There is a discussion about the integration of the spectrum and its relation to signal energy, with references to Parseval's theorem, indicating that negative frequencies do contribute to the energy of the signal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the treatment of negative frequencies in bandwidth calculations and their contribution to signal energy. Multiple competing views remain regarding their physical interpretation and significance.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on how to adjust definitions like bandwidth and the implications of ignoring negative frequencies in certain contexts. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the role of negative frequencies in signal analysis.

sukh_ece
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Negative frequencies in spectrum analysis...

Hello everyone...
When we do the frequency analysis of a signal using Fourier transform, we get spectrum at negative frequencies also. What are they and what is the physical significance of such frequencies? Its hard for me to imagine a negative frequency. Plz share ur knowldge on this...
 
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If your signal is real, you can ignore them - they are the same as the positive frequencies.
If you have a complex signal, they are similar to the positive frequencies, but correspond to a different "rotation" of the signal in the complex plane.
 
Negative frequency, like negative distance, seems non-physical. However, we can locate physical points by position relative to some arbitrary zero reference, like on the X-axis. Negative simply means "to the left of the zero reference".

It is the same with frequency. When we discuss modulation of an RF carrier, is it very convenient to consider frequencies relative to the carrier. Negative frequencies are simply to the left of the carrier on the spectral plot.

Consider measuring the angular frequency of a clockwise rotating wheel that is illuminated by a strobe light that flashes at 1Hz. My observed (measured) frequency will be relative to 1Hz. If the wheel's angular frequency is 1Hz, I will observe 0Hz, i.e. it will appear stationary. If it is rotating 1.5Hz I will measure +0.5Hz. If it is rotating at 0.5Hz I will observe -0.5Hz, negative because it appears to be rotating counterclockwise.

The strobelight here is analogous to the 2.45GHz carrier on a WiFi signal. We observe the modulation behavior relative to this carrier.
 
Thanks @mfb and @the_emi_guy...

If we can ignore the negative frequencies for a signal...then there is one doubt...
The bandwidth of a signal ranging from -fm to fm is 2fm...then why we consider negative frequencies in finding the bandwidth...
 
That is just a definition of "bandwidth" - you could use half the bandwidth as "bandwidth" as well, if you add this factor of 2 everywhere else.
 
@mfb...thanks...
I don't understand ur answer...where we can add the factor 2?...different frequencies contribute to the signal formation...a signals energy is equal to integration of the square of spectrum over entire frequency range (Parsevaals theorem)...that means negative frequencies exist and contribute in the energy of the signal ...then how can we ignore their contribution in the bandwidth...
 
where we can add the factor 2?
In the definition of "bandwidth". Don't do that, but it would be possible.
then how can we ignore their contribution in the bandwidth...
Maybe "ignore" is not the best word. If they are exactly the same as the positive frequencies, they don't add new information about the wave. You can just take the positive part, and multiply it by 2, as the negative part and positive part are the same.
 
Thanks...
 

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