Newbie questions about the NEC code and flexible "dry use" metal conduit

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In summary, the author is trying to comply with code, but there are limitations to what they can do. They need to cover the conduit and disconnect, and they need to do it with a flexible cord.
  • #1
PhysicsFreak321
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This is only my second post and I pray it is deemed on topic. This forum has given me a lot of insight however a forum search left me without answer here.
Most likely because you are all WELL above my knowledge level.
I'll try to make this short and again pray I'm on topic.. I live in florida and inherited a mess... I don't have much cash and only general electric knowledge. My inheritance property also inherited a code violation... And pretty imminent fines. Since the breaker was not within sight of the hot water heater I must install a disconnect. I do have a certified state electrician who will pull the permit but that is on the requisite that I do the labor on my own and he simply does safety and compliance inspection!
( Journeyman opportunity?) :)
I sent a picture to him and he said the conduit may not be the "right kind"
My opinion on the dry use only was just that... Indoor use dry locations.
Yes I hate that the conduit is exposed but again this is an unfortunate inheritance that I just want to comply until I can afford a professional.
I have researched that it must be supported no more than every " memory"
48 inches...
Where I pass through the wall and exterior have exterior rated box and conduit...
Interior box is also exterior rated passing through wall.
I read that a span of 6 feet or more from a fixture must have an independent ground source?
The wire is 10 gauge 3. AWGI guess my question is this..
1. is this considered independently grounded?
2. Is what you see so far (although ugly)
Safe and in compliance with NEC?

Additional general info:
The span of this conduit is 8 feet interior.
The pre existing wiring was open cable wired to a 40 amp 220v ( power is off but since it's a double breaker I assume 220)

I do not expect however welcome direct answers... If not can I please be pointed in the direction to learn on my own the answers to the issue I have.

I pray my second post is in the appropriate forum and of the appropriate nature. Just remember even you guys once we're 22 year olds with no knowledge of electricity other than God's gift of common Sense. I'm trying so hard.
This is also my first attempt at showing photos on here so I pray that as well is to par.
Thank you all.. I envy your talents. Call this a kind deed?
Advice suggestions criticism...
( Power has been off for over a year but I did check everything with a voltmeter before touching.)
Also load side is not installed because if I'm on the wrong path I can not afford more mistakes :(
What you see is from the hot water heater to disconnect. What is missing is disconnect to box... Through wall to exterior rated conduit to breaker panel...
And it's missing a dead face so God bless her memory but she must have had faith in me.
 

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  • #2
Forgot to mention disconnect is non fusable 60 amp. Breaker outside is 40 amp breaker. As I want the exterior breaker to trip without burning the 60 amp non fusable pullout disconnect
 
  • #3
Line view ( non load )
 

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  • #4
Anticipated 8 foot span of dry use conduit 26 inches from floor level supported with clamps every 3 feet.
 

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  • #5
Exterior side ... I'll pigtail and place cover obviously just wanted you all to see what I am dealing with.

Again please take it easy and if anything I posted is in incorrect location or off topic direct me accordingly. I am an open ear and do not with to pollute this sight. I just know this is the breath you guys breathe on this specific topic and what is Soo puzzling to me is children play to you.
Thank you for any advice
 

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  • #6
Hot water heater ground I cleaned it to allow a solid non corroded ground.
 

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  • #7
Might be a candidate for DIY thread...?

What i see looks well done, just needs the disconnect covered and conduit supported..
8 feet you say ? NEC limits flex conduit length to 6 feet unless you put a grounding conductor in it
Picture looks like there's one already. If not, pull a green one same size as other two.

There's this interesting paragraph in NEC

upload_2018-10-31_22-4-29.png


suggesting a 50amp range outlet and cord might be viable .
Look carefully in the water heater instruction pamphlet for mention of connecting with a flexible cord. That would make it "identified" .
The receptacle can be your disconnect so long as it's accessible.
Adding isolation valves and unions would satisfy the "mechanical connections" clause, and simplify replacing elements.

But i think you're so close now you should just proceed.
 

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  • #8
jim hardy said:
Might be a candidate for DIY thread...?

What i see looks well done, just needs the disconnect covered and conduit supported..
8 feet you say ? NEC limits flex conduit length to 6 feet unless you put a grounding conductor in it
Picture looks like there's one already. If not, pull a green one same size as other two.

There's this interesting paragraph in NEC

View attachment 233191

suggesting a 50amp range outlet and cord might be viable .
Look carefully in the water heater instruction pamphlet for mention of connecting with a flexible cord. That would make it "identified" .
The receptacle can be your disconnect so long as it's accessible.
Adding isolation valves and unions would satisfy the "mechanical connections" clause, and simplify replacing elements.

But i think you're so close now you should just proceed.
The water heater was here before I inherited the property.. they simply ran exposed wires through the kitchen a true DIY.

Can you elaborate on the need for a ground on over a 6 foot run that is what my confusion is... Are my pictures to forum standards? I'm going to assume so an try to show you the ground situation
 
  • #9
The two fingers identify the breaker, below there is the all wire ground. That will run direct from this BREAKER through conduit through disconnect to hot water heater ground screw.
The picture you listed is what I read but it confused me if this complied with ground requirements.
Conduit will be supported with approved brackets 3 on the 8 foot run and one within 12 inches of every end that meets a box if that makes sense.

THANKS FOR THE INPUT SO AM I ON THE RIGHT PATH? I understand the receptical would be the obvious answer I'm just forced to work with what I have... A formula of sorts with many variables mainly delayed by my knowledge!
But trust and believe that now I will be studying electrical a lot more!
Sincerely this poor guy who inherited a mess!

Fart fan is next ! Not exited. Exept to learn.
 

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  • #10
Oops! I see you have Liqui-Tite flexible conduit there. That may or may not be acceptable (probably not) for that usage, you may have to use solid conduit and the appropriate fittings.

General rule is that any couplings in an area exposed to liquid must be oriented so that liquid will flow away from the coupling.
If you continue to use flexible conduit for this part of the installation, the conduit on the left needs a 90° elbow facing downwards and the conduit entry to the box must be on the bottom. You also need to replace the box as it is not liquid tight due to the mounting holes on its back wall. Boxes for wet areas generally have their mounting holes on ears so there is no penetration for liquid to sneak in.

A lot of codes & their regulatory agencies have their own restrictions in addition to the NEC. For instance here in California even interior wiring must be in solid conduit, you can't run the building wiring with BX armored cable as some areas allow.
img_20181031_173820592-jpg.jpg


Cheers,
Tom
 

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  • #11
PhysicsFreak321 said:
The two fingers identify the breaker, below there is the all wire ground. That will run direct from this BREAKER through conduit through disconnect to hot water heater ground screw.
The picture you listed is what I read but it confused me if this complied with ground requirements.
Conduit will be supported with approved brackets 3 on the 8 foot run and one within 12 inches of every end that meets a box if that makes sense.

THANKS FOR THE INPUT SO AM I ON THE RIGHT PATH? I understand the receptical would be the obvious answer I'm just forced to work with what I have... A formula of sorts with many variables mainly delayed by my knowledge!
But trust and believe that now I will be studying electrical a lot more!
Sincerely this poor guy who inherited a mess!

Fart fan is next ! Not exited. Exept to learn.
Tom.G said:
Oops! I see you have Liqui-Tite flexible conduit there. That may or may not be acceptable (probably not) for that usage, you may have to use solid conduit and the appropriate fittings.

General rule is that any couplings in an area exposed to liquid must be oriented so that liquid will flow away from the coupling.
If you continue to use flexible conduit for this part of the installation, the conduit on the left needs a 90° elbow facing downwards and the conduit entry to the box must be on the bottom. You also need to replace the box as it is not liquid tight due to the mounting holes on its back wall. Boxes for wet areas generally have their mounting holes on ears so there is no penetration for liquid to sneak in.

A lot of codes & their regulatory agencies have their own restrictions in addition to the NEC. For instance here in California even interior wiring must be in solid conduit, you can't run the building wiring with BX armored cable as some areas allow.
View attachment 233199

Cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom! It's confusing! Makes perfect sense what your saying! The box and fittings said "suitable for wet locations" they had rubber washers with a compression fitting on both union ends.
I understand that's not applicable in all situations EG underwater..
So if I understand correctly the union on the left must 90 downwards... Followed by a rigid metallic 90 to the roght and into the bottom of the box... This shape in lament term...
|_|
Sorry for the ignorance but my goodness thank you all for bearing with me here.
FYI I. Now downloading NEC and refreshing high school and santa fe community college info.
This is actually intriguing and I am a great learner... I don't expect just answers I'm working hard to learn too! Thanks you guys this forum is amazing!

Wow so in CALI no flex conduit interior! No wonder electrical is state to state with few states recognized recipricocity!
I would think Florida would be stricter than Cali!
But then again at least without google California code and regulations pop up on a lot of things I see in Florida minuse roofing shingles ( Miami Dade approved)
Good to know!
 
  • #12
PhysicsFreak321 said:
Can you elaborate on the need for a ground on over a 6 foot run that is what my confusion is..
code is so doggone wordy trying to cover every conceivable permutation of "What If's"

spend ten minutes here
https://www.ecmweb.com/content/does-nec-limit-flexible-metal-conduit-run

and this looks to me like a ground wire is there already
upload_2018-10-31_23-38-44.png
yes i think you're headed the right direction.

It's nice to see things done right, isn't it ? Shortcuts will haunt your conscience at night.

old jim
 

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  • #13
PhysicsFreak321 said:
I see in Florida minuse roofing shingles ( Miami Dade approved)
You live there ?

Old timey weathermen will tell you in a hurricane to open a window on downwind side of house.
That places the house in a slight vacuum and sucks the roof membrane down against the sheathing. That way the wind doesn't get under the shingles.
If a window or door is partly open on the upwind side the structure gets pressurized by ram effect, lifting the roof membrane so wind rips it away..
 
  • #14
A possible substitute for the box in that photo, look at style LB on page 7 of this catalog:
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/crousehinds/resources/catalog-sections/f_section.pdf
PhysicsFreak321 said:
So if I understand correctly the union on the left must 90 downwards... Followed by a rigid metallic 90 to the roght and into the bottom of the box... This shape in lament term...
|_|
Or it might be easier to put another hole in the wall and move the box higher. Bending conduit is a bit of an art, avoid if you can! Use fittings instead.

You MAY get away with using the flex outdoors, that would make things a lot easier. Suggest you find out if it's allowed. Also visit your local chain home improvement hardware store. Browse their electrical hardware and ask questions, every once in a while you run across an employee that is actually knowledgeable! If not, try again on a different shift.

Another approach is a personal visit to your Code Enforcement office. You will probably have to ask specific questions rather than 'How can I do this'.

Cheers,
Tom
 
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  • #15
jim hardy said:
code is so doggone wordy trying to cover every conceivable permutation of "What If's"

spend ten minutes here
https://www.ecmweb.com/content/does-nec-limit-flexible-metal-conduit-run

and this looks to me like a ground wire is there already
View attachment 233200yes i think you're headed the right direction.

It's nice to see things done right, isn't it ? Shortcuts will haunt your conscience at night.

old jim
That is a ground wire.
Great! Thank you for the link!
And yes generally I do flooring and when one of my workers takes a shortcut ( cuts finish board too long not leaving expansion joint at baseboard ..
I have them pull it up and correct or of not applicable Dremel it in.. I'm not a shortcut guy.. just got caught in a bad time!
Thanks for all your help! The link is a great resource
 
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  • #16
I think what you have looks ok. The only place you need to worry about wet location is on the outside (red paint pic). Some local codes permit flexible conduit/armoured cable, etc and some don't. Chances are if you buy an appliance whip at a Lowes or Home Depot to connect the water heater you would be safe. Personally I would have run EMT on the outside with rain tite connectors, but that's just me. An LB as mentioned above would look more 'pro' but the Bell box you have there is fine. Remember to tie a ground wire to each box. Good luck.
 
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  • #17
Also was wondering how many watts the water heater is. Don't forget that you cannot exceed 80% of the breakers rating on continuous loads. Generally a 4500 watt heater would be on a 30 amp circuit. Also, don't forget duct seal where the conduit runs through the wall. It prevents warm and cold air causing condensation within the conduit.
 
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Related to Newbie questions about the NEC code and flexible "dry use" metal conduit

1. What is the NEC code?

The NEC (National Electrical Code) is a set of regulations and standards developed by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) to ensure the safe installation of electrical wiring and equipment in buildings and structures.

2. What is flexible "dry use" metal conduit?

Flexible "dry use" metal conduit is a type of electrical conduit that is made of metal and is used to protect and route electrical wires and cables. It is flexible and can be bent to fit around corners and obstacles, making it a popular choice for wiring in tight spaces.

3. Is flexible "dry use" metal conduit allowed by the NEC code?

Yes, flexible "dry use" metal conduit is allowed by the NEC code. However, it must meet certain requirements, such as being properly installed and secured, and used in appropriate locations and environments.

4. What are the benefits of using flexible "dry use" metal conduit?

Flexible "dry use" metal conduit offers several benefits, including its flexibility and ability to be bent to fit tight spaces, its durability and resistance to damage, and its ability to protect wires and cables from moisture, corrosion, and other hazards.

5. Are there any limitations or restrictions on the use of flexible "dry use" metal conduit?

Yes, there are some limitations and restrictions on the use of flexible "dry use" metal conduit. These may include limitations on its use in certain environments or locations, restrictions on the types of wires and cables that can be run through it, and requirements for proper installation and securing of the conduit.

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