Noone really knows what an electric field is

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of electric fields, exploring the fundamental understanding of what they are and how they operate. Participants engage with concepts from classical electrodynamics and quantum electrodynamics (QED), questioning the mechanisms behind electric field interactions and the role of photons in these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express uncertainty about how charges can interact at a distance without a mediating material, suggesting that the exchange of photons could be a possible explanation.
  • Others emphasize the importance of understanding QED and its foundational role in explaining electric and magnetic fields, noting that the vector and scalar potentials are central to this theory.
  • A participant questions the nature of photon exchange and whether it can be accurately described as "passing the ball back and forth at the speed of light."
  • There are discussions about the limitations of analogies in understanding complex concepts, with some arguing that mathematical formulations provide a more fundamental understanding than analogies.
  • Some participants assert that a lack of understanding of QED does not invalidate the claim that "no one really knows what an electric field is," suggesting that the statement reflects a broader uncertainty in the field.
  • Concerns are raised about the accessibility of QFT and QED education for undergraduate students, particularly in aerospace engineering programs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of electric fields or the adequacy of current explanations. There are competing views on the role of mathematical understanding versus analogical reasoning, as well as differing opinions on the implications of knowledge gaps regarding QED.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express that exact theories may not provide a fundamental understanding beyond mathematical descriptions, while others argue that analogies can be misleading. The discussion highlights the complexity of the topic and the varying levels of familiarity with advanced concepts like QED among participants.

  • #31
jtbell said:
Which theories in physics have been "proven to be a set of facts?"

Never, and that's my point. When the original poster inquired about "the cause of the cause" to understand what something "really" "is", I think the correct answer to his question would be that science isn't about reaching a finality about what something "really" "is". Science isn't about Kant's "the thing in itself." Science is about finding patterns that correlate measureables with other measureables, in a way that has been found to provide predictive power. Science continues to accumulate, and never completes the search for "the cause of the cause". But that's not what the other people replied to him. Instead, they replied to him that OTHER people HAVE reached the final understanding, and that only HE hasn't learned about it yet, that HE hasn't read the right book.
 
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  • #32
Wow. Sorry gents for opening a pandoras box. I am merely maintaining that I and possibly others can obtain a better understanding of say...Maxwell's equations is they could be set to analogies. I firmly maintain that still. So, I was challenging the brains on this forum to come down to my level and to the best of their ability create analogies that can better explain the fundamentals than just knowing the formulae. A perfect example.
Del dot B=0
To you guys, you see this and think "Oh, there are no magentic monopoles." But to me that just double the questions I have. So what does it mean that there are no manetic monopoles and how does this statement relate to the equation. Now if an analogist with proper abilities could come along and say something like...

Del dot B=0 is like a belt with no seam. It has no beginning (source) or end (sink) it's divergence is 0, given that divergence related to sink and source. (not even sure this is correct but it still a point I'm making).

Then I could look at the equation and think of the analogy and it would help reinforce my understanding, memorization, ease of explaining it to others in a non-mathematical way, and possibly understanding similar equations, based on remembering my analogy.
 

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