Not doing well in a class -- Teacher is abusive. help please

[puleknow]

So in my upper division mechanics course I've stared to not do well on my quizzes.
The difference between a fail is 30 points and a few points extra is a 80 -90. The tests have a very fine line, and the teacher does not think this is a issue.

So I go to ask him for help. He gets mad at me when I don't know how to solve a problem after learning it just 5 minutes ago in class. He thinks I should be able to do every problem after just hearing about the information just once. If I do know how to solve the problem he gets mad at me for asking him something I know how to do and thinks I'm wasting his time.

If I don't know something immediately he makes insults such as, I will never do research, your lack of learning is not my problem. I can't believe you don't remember this one thing from 5 semesters ago. etc. etc.

I'm really trying hard to pass/ace this class. I have a small chance now. If not a B-A then I'll shoot for C and bite the bullet on one class. I'am acing all my other classes so... I don't know. I don't know what to do.

It seems this issue is very split for some odd reason.

to be honest I never expected to receive such a response.

Most of the responses have to do with claims that I'am exaggerating abuse. If that's the case I apologize. The problem I'am trying to display is supposedly not clear.

I'am trying very hard to pass this class. I hope to graduate. I'am not asking to graduate. I'am hoping to get there. I want to learn, I will do pretty much whatever it takes to get there.

This professor is essentially discouraging me from learning by commenting negatively on my stupidity. I'am stupid. So I work a lot harder in order to receive the same grades as other class mates. This professor seems to not care and would more than likely want to not see me succeed. At least that is the vibe I'am getting from him when asking questions is responded with by negativity.

I'am told that teachers love it when students really struggle , and want to learn. This seems to not be the case and rather the professor seems to be normal with those who are already completely done with the class (not asking questions, showing little interest and acing everything) than those who want to learn.

From what I know, this is contradictory to what a teacher is supposedly supposed to do.

Judging by the responses here I suppose whenever someone is struggling like this, having a lot of problems, and does not know what to do, I suppose the best route to go would be to claim that you shouldn't complain and that its normal to not be included in your physics classroom followed by a brief your entitled for even considering learning physics.

Thank you for that.

 

[Integrand]

I'm going to ignore the question of whether your portrayal of your professor is accurate. I will assume it is for the sake of argument.

If going to the professor for help is not working for you, a stopgap is to go to a TA. That's what they are there for. One needn't even have a grievance with the professor to do this. One may simply find the TA a better match.

I called this a stopgap because it avoids the main problem. Consider the pros and cons. Several bad outcomes can result from invoking disciplinary procedures. On the other hand, gaining the skill to tolerate and absorb the behaviour of people like your professor will serve you well for the rest of your life. It is a learnable skill that everyone needs. Whether you believe they should behave better is beside the point. You will meet more people like this in the future.

 

[puleknow]

I'm going to ignore the question of whether your portrayal of your professor is accurate. I will assume it is for the sake of argument.

If going to the professor for help is not working for you, a stopgap is to go to a TA. That's what they are there for. One needn't even have a grievance with the professor to do this. One may simply find the TA a better match.

I called this a stopgap because it avoids the main problem. Consider the pros and cons. Several bad outcomes can result from invoking disciplinary procedures. On the other hand, gaining the skill to tolerate and absorb the behaviour of people like your professor will serve you well for the rest of your life. It is a learnable skill that everyone needs. Whether you believe they should behave better is beside the point. You will meet more people like this in the future.

Right. This I know. There is no TA sadly. I do believe I should not have to tolerate such behavior however. I'am currently, but I'am pretty sure his behavior does not make him a good teacher, which should never be the case.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I want to learn physics by dumping my non-existent soul on it.

I thought I said turn the drama down a notch. Did I say up? If so, my mistake. I meant down.

 

[Mark44]

In post #1

The difference between a fail is 30 points and a few points extra is a 80 -90. The tests have a very fine line, and the teacher does not think this is a issue.

I don't know what you're trying to see in the first sentence above. Are you saying that a failing grade is somewhere between 50 and 60? To get to between 80 and 90 points will take 30 points, which isn't what I would call "a few points extra."

So I go to ask him for help. He gets mad at me when I don't know how to solve a problem after learning it just 5 minutes ago in class.

If you didn't understand it during class, did you ask a question about it then? Also, are you coming to class prepared by having read ahead in the material covered in that class session?

Also, when you come to the professor's office for help, do you say something like "I don't understand this" or something like "I'm working on problem 33, and the answer I got is different from the one in the back of the book."
You should get a lot more help if you can show that you have put in some effort.

I can't believe you don't remember this one thing from 5 semesters ago. etc. etc.

As already mentioned by another member, physics as presented in college is cumulative. Concepts that were presented 5 semesters ago are probably pretty basic. If you're having trouble with concepts that were covered in your freshman year, that's not a recipe for success as a junior or senior.

Post #7

There is no room for partial credit. the quizes are just very tight. I don't really know how to prepare them.

Isn't there any advance notice of when a quiz will be given, like in the course syllabus/class schedule? If notice is given, are you advised which topics will be covered in the quiz? Are there assigned homework problems? If so, are they graded and returned to you?
The best way to prepare for a quiz is make sure you have read the assigned material, have done the homework problems (and have understood them, including which ones you got wrong).

Post #20

They aren't going to just tell you the answer; this doesn't help at all.

This helps so much you wouldn't believe it. After I get the answer I begin to question it until I understand it.

Sure it helps if someone gives you the answer. You don't have to go to all the hard work of figuring the answer out yourself. It's always easier to see someone do a problem and come up with the correct answer than it is to do the problem yourself. As a 3rd year physics major, this is NOT a good strategy.

Post #34

Surely the learning of physics can be done without any insults whatsoever to one's self esteem. Surely mistakes and lack of knowledge should not be treated as a death sentence but rather as a result of a human limitation. If not then shame on one who does not know everything at all times.

I can't say whether your professor is being abusive, as you claimed early on in this thread, since we have heard only one side of the story. I agree that teaching should not be done using insults, but describing mistakes and lack of knowledge being treated as "a death sentence" is hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

 

[puleknow]

In post #1
I don't know what you're trying to see in the first sentence above. Are you saying that a failing grade is somewhere between 50 and 60? To get to between 80 and 90 points will take 30 points, which isn't what I would call "a few points extra."

If you didn't understand it during class, did you ask a question about it then? Also, are you coming to class prepared by having read ahead in the material covered in that class session?

Also, when you come to the professor's office for help, do you say something like "I don't understand this" or something like "I'm working on problem 33, and the answer I got is different from the one in the back of the book."
You should get a lot more help if you can show that you have put in some effort.

As already mentioned by another member, physics as presented in college is cumulative. Concepts that were presented 5 semesters ago are probably pretty basic. If you're having trouble with concepts that were covered in your freshman year, that's not a recipe for success as a junior or senior.

Post #7
Isn't there any advance notice of when a quiz will be given, like in the course syllabus/class schedule? If notice is given, are you advised which topics will be covered in the quiz? Are there assigned homework problems? If so, are they graded and returned to you?
The best way to prepare for a quiz is make sure you have read the assigned material, have done the homework problems (and have understood them, including which ones you got wrong).

Post #20
Sure it helps if someone gives you the answer. You don't have to go to all the hard work of figuring the answer out yourself. It's always easier to see someone do a problem and come up with the correct answer than it is to do the problem yourself. As a 3rd year physics major, this is NOT a good strategy.

Post #34
I can't say whether your professor is being abusive, as you claimed early on in this thread, since we have heard only one side of the story. I agree that teaching should not be done using insults, but describing mistakes and lack of knowledge being treated as "a death sentence" is hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

The difference between a fail and a ace is one or two questions because the questions are weighed very heavily.

10 points per multiple choice question, there are 5. You have very little room for error because you can't get partial credit.

The renaming portion of the test is one question that a random physics question based on the material of the chapter. There is not partial for that.

So if you miss a multiple choice question once or twice you end up getting 20-30% of your grade off. Miss the short problem and you will surely fail.

I do the "I'm working on problem 33, and the answer I got is different from the one in the back of the book." route. I tell about the procedure and say where i get stuck. The response is , just do it yourself(not helping with the question in any way.)

I don't have trouble understanding the basic concepts at all. I may just forget what they are sometimes. Proabley because its not being used. I looked on other threads and this is normal. I know what the potential energy for a spring does and what its used for, why we use it, what it relates to etc. I just may forget the equation for it, because I forget things.

Isn't there any advance notice of when a quiz will be given, like in the course syllabus/class schedule? If notice is given, are you advised which topics will be covered in the quiz? Are there assigned homework problems? If so, are they graded and returned to you?
The best way to prepare for a quiz is make sure you have read the assigned material, have done the homework problems (and have understood them, including which ones you got wrong).

The homework is not returned to me. I prepare for the quiz every day for two weeks. The quizes are every two weeks. This does not end up being enough for me for some reason. I do mostly every problem (at least 80% completion). I read every chapter. I take lots of notes. I question every derivation to make sure I understand them all. I look back upon previous math i may have forgotten. I carefully read the chapter spending days reviewing it over and over. (keep in mind I have other classes to time manage as well.)

and then I get a problem and usually I'm like.

waitwait

wait wait wait wait. Is my picture correct? usually the end result is yes(continue to do the problem). no, immediately lose all hope in the problem.

If its a problem I have never seen, this will usual be my biggest issue.

Sure it helps if someone gives you the answer. You don't have to go to all the hard work of figuring the answer out yourself. It's always easier to see someone do a problem and come up with the correct answer than it is to do the problem yourself. As a 3rd year physics major, this is NOT a good strategy.

The problem with this is room for failure. I'm not asking for the straight up answer. It would be like, I'm using two conservation laws to solve this problem. I'm not sure about how to find potential energy for this particular case. I feel like I'm missing something. If I'm wrong. its bad. If I'm right, i can continue the problem.

Homework should be used to evaluate your learning but, they also hamper your GPA. since every point counts there is a small room for failure. Which tends to get to the path of don't fail this problem and get the right answer before the problem begins. That is just the incentives of the school system.

Outside of the homework. Yes that is fine. But then time is of the essence, so no not really. If I'm stuck somewhere for more than 15 minutes I would like to figure out the next step please. It just not effective at that point. I fail a problem. Alright i examine it and move on. I'll do it again later. I can't examine it or understand the answer, then I'm going to forget the solution, I'll redo it after re-reading the book.

Its strange that by this point people still see the "answers" as a bad thing. Like. How else do you KNOW you are right.

I can't say whether your professor is being abusive, as you claimed early on in this thread, since we have heard only one side of the story. I agree that teaching should not be done using insults, but describing mistakes and lack of knowledge being treated as "a death sentence" is hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

What I meant was. I forgot something small. Like an equation or something we just learned in class, I would be scolded by an annoyed professor. This happened and when I asked again the argument tangented to I will never do research, which i don't know about you, is absurd in every scenario that does not help me in any whatsoever.

Like if i need to know the Lagrangian equations of motion for a certain problem, and I get stuck trying to think about the potential energy of a rolling disk on an inclined plane, (I hope that makes sense, I'm very bad at that lately) , I think your never going to do research, get out of my office, stop asking me basic questions etc... would be a thing that almost never helps with the problem at hand.

If it does help, then I guess when a student asks about some derivation just reply with ...you should just... like.. know maaaan.

It may not be abusive although, that is just my opinion. I hope we can both agree it has nothing do with physics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

10 points per multiple choice question, there are 5...So if you miss a multiple choice question once or twice you end up getting 20-30% of your grade off.

And?

If you can answer 60% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 60%? If you can answer 80% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 80%? And If you can answer 100% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 100%? How is this "abuse"?

. I know what the potential energy for a spring does and what its used for, why we use it, what it relates to etc. I just may forget the equation for it, because I forget things.

If you don't remember the equation, and don't remember how to derive it, you didn't learn it, and you're unprepared for the upper division courses. This isn't abuse. This is just a fact. You're right to be mad at a professor, but you're mad at the wrong one. You should be mad at the professor in your introductory class for passing you when you should have failed. Had you failed, you would have known that you didn't get adequate preparation and could have taken steps. Your present professor is merely telling you the truth.

 

[puleknow]

And?

If you can answer 60% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 60%? If you can answer 80% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 80%? And If you can answer 100% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 100%? How is this "abuse"?
If you don't remember the equation, and don't remember how to derive it, you didn't learn it, and you're unprepared for the upper division courses. This isn't abuse. This is just a fact. You're right to be mad at a professor, but you're mad at the wrong one. You should be mad at the professor in your introductory class for passing you when you should have failed. Had you failed, you would have known that you didn't get adequate preparation and could have taken steps. Your present professor is merely telling you the truth.

It's very obvious you don't understand what I'am saying.

Do you remember what you had to eat 3 years ago on February 10th?

Of course not.

Same thing. You can forget very minuscule things every once in a while. Your claim is that I din't derive it or din't learn it. That's not what I said. So loss by default.

If you can answer 60% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 60%? If you can answer 80% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 80%? And If you can answer 100% of the problems shouldn't your grade be 100%? How is this "abuse"?

The test are not at all structured in such a manner.

You should be mad at the professor in your introductory class for passing you when you should have failed

The next time you see a student forget a basic equation (which a lot do). go ahead and fail him back to a introductory course and see what happens.
<Insult deleted by mentor>

 

[Mark44]

The difference between a fail and a ace is one or two questions because the questions are weighed very heavily.

10 points per multiple choice question, there are 5. You have very little room for error because you can't get partial credit.

You're thinking that you should get partial credit for a wrong answer on a multiple choice quiz?

I don't have trouble understanding the basic concepts at all. I may just forget what they are sometimes.

A major part of understanding basic concepts is remembering what they are.

 

[Dishsoap]

Do you have an example of a question that you feel is unreasonable? That may help us to understand.

 

[Vanadium 50]

The thing is, you only get to control your side of the conversation. Telling people to shut up when they are saying things you don't want to hear isn't going to get you where you want to be.

If you don't remember an expression, or remember how to derive it, you don't know the material. (Mark44 made a similar comment) If you can't apply it to a problem you haven't seen before, you don't know the material. This isn't abuse. This is the definition of learning.

The path you are on does not take you towards your goals. You have two choices:

1. Continue to blame others
2. Take it upon yourself to correct your shortcomings

Only one of these paths takes you where you want to go. Up to you.

 

[clope023]

Do you remember what you had to eat 3 years ago on February 10th?

Of course not.

Same thing.

It's really not though

 

[Choppy]

At this point, I guess my question to the OP (@puleknow ) is what are you hoping for?

With respect to the grading scheme there probably isn't that much you can do about it. I understand you don't feel that it's fair, but remember that everyone else in the class is evaluated by the same system. If enough students complain about it *maybe* the professor can be convinced to change it, but that's very rare in my experience. As you progress through university, you're going to encounter different approaches to grading. Some will favour your particular strengths, some will run counter to them. And it's important that you're exposed to a variety of approaches. The real world is often less forgiving of errors than academia is.

With respect to you not being able to remember certain principles while working on problems - if I understand from your subsequent posts, it sounds like you're making a reasonable effort in your studies. If this actually is the case, I'm not sure what you're hoping this professor can do for you. The only way to get good at knowing when to apply certain principles and getting them to a state where they are readily accessible in your memory when working on problems is through study, understanding, and practice. If this isn't working (and practicing even more doesn't help), there isn't a lot a professor can do for you. There's no secret dance* that's going to improve your working memory.

With respect to the professor calling you stupid, or other derogatory behaviour - all people have a right to be treated with respect and dignity. Whether the specific behaviour is "abusive" or not is perhaps subjective and there's no point in trying to convince a bunch of people online that it is precisely as you've labelled it. Your experience is what it is. The problem is how to deal with it.

Unfortunately there may not be a lot of great options. One is to simply put your head down, slog through the course, and try to earn the best grade you can under the circumstances. Not every battle is worth fighting. But if this professor is calling you stupid and not helping you, you may need to find an alternative for figuring out the course material. This is not ideal - particularly for the cost of a university education these days, but it might be the most efficient solution.

Another option is to have an open and frank conversation with the professor about your feelings on the matter. "When you called me stupid, that made me feel belittled, was quite disrespectful, and quite frankly goes against university policy." Such conversations can be very difficult to initiate, particularly when there is a power-gradient involved. And you have to ask whether it's going to solve anything. If this professor agrees to treat you better, is that going to improve your performance in the class or your overall understanding of the material?

Others have pointed out the issues with bringing up this issue with the professor's superiors. That will likely come with consequences.

So in the end, the question comes back to: what are you hoping for at this point?
*For what it's worth, you can try cranking up the Bengals' Walk Like an Egyptian extend your right arm forward, bend your elbow and wrist at 90 degrees each, extend your left arm backward with the wrist and elbow at 90 degrees each, and pretend you're an integral. The evidence that this helps to solve integration problems however is anecdotal at best. /sarcasm

 

[Vanadium 50]

And you have to ask whether it's going to solve anything. If this professor agrees to treat you better, is that going to improve your performance in the class or your overall understanding of the material?

Outstanding point. And to be fair to everyone, puleknow never said the professor called him stupid.

For what it's worth, you can try cranking up the Bengals' Walk Like an Egyptian...

He might not be familiar with classical music. (Edit: Oh, and I think they were the Bangles. The Bengels are something else)

 

[Scargo]

If applicable, I found that being a nuisance in class did not curry favor from teachers. Frequently asking questions, which were either because I wasn't prepared or I wanted to give the teacher a hard time, due to a small mistake or weakness in their speaking on the topic, didn't get any positive responses from them.
If you usurp a lot of the prof's time then I could see him getting critical. If you get combative or argumentative and are normally at this level of collegiality, like you have been here, then you are asking for what you get.
I cannot tell the level of your education but I will say that you could work on your presentation of ideas, your writing, grammar and sentence structure. Many have had difficulty understanding what you are asking or saying in several instances. Lack of clarity that might frustrate the instructor.
I'd suggest you not go over his head but be open and frank and discuss your difficulties with depression and negativity. Perhaps this curriculum, this level of difficulty and stress is not well-suited to you? When someone points out something critically, that you are aware of and sensitive about, the common response is to get angry and feel offended and wronged.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

If applicable, I found that being a nuisance in class did not curry favor from teachers. Frequently asking questions, which were either because I wasn't prepared or I wanted to give the teacher a hard time, due to a small mistake or weakness in their speaking on the topic, didn't get any positive responses from them.
If you usurp a lot of the prof's time then I could see him getting critical. If you get combative or argumentative and are normally at this level of collegiality, like you have been here, then you are asking for what you get.

Both myself and most of the profs I know appreciate questions in class. Odds are for every student who asks a question, several other students have the same question or something similar.

If a student starts asking about minutia I don't think will be useful for the rest of the class, I simply ask them to come discuss it during my office hours, so I can more effectively use class time treating material I think will be helpful to the whole class. This is rare.

 

[puleknow]

If applicable, I found that being a nuisance in class did not curry favor from teachers. Frequently asking questions, which were either because I wasn't prepared or I wanted to give the teacher a hard time, due to a small mistake or weakness in their speaking on the topic, didn't get any positive responses from them.
If you usurp a lot of the prof's time then I could see him getting critical. If you get combative or argumentative and are normally at this level of collegiality, like you have been here, then you are asking for what you get.
I cannot tell the level of your education but I will say that you could work on your presentation of ideas, your writing, grammar and sentence structure. Many have had difficulty understanding what you are asking or saying in several instances. Lack of clarity that might frustrate the instructor.
I'd suggest you not go over his head but be open and frank and discuss your difficulties with depression and negativity. Perhaps this curriculum, this level of difficulty and stress is not well-suited to you? When someone points out something critically, that you are aware of and sensitive about, the common response is to get angry and feel offended and wronged.

No I do not get offended or angry for being wrong. I 'am ok with this. however if I'am wrong I would never expect a teacher to get angry and would always expect a level of tolerance and professionalism that comes with being a college or university professor.

I do not receive any other reaction with any other of my college professors. I may be kindly told that "we are veering off topic" or "this is isn't the scope of the class" when asking too many questions.

However I would never be told I could not do work in research, or not be a physicist for asking a question.

pretty much everyone in my class agrees with me on this subject.

As for level of education this is a 400 level physics class that even graduates fail. I'm a junior.

Recently since I posted this I have managed to do much better in the class pulling my self to a B level . I ace the homeworks and get 70-90 on the remaining quizzes . The class average for the quizzes is 30-40. This average has not changed for half the semester. Students who also do well agree with me on the angry and insultative nature of the teacher. this should bring more insight to the situation.

By Insultative I mean racist, prejudice, Or uneccsarily deaming comments that do not further learning whatsoever.

From the comments I have read on this thread it seems that is ok for a teacher to be racist or insultative in such a manner.

 

[arydberg]

I'm 75 and it's a long time from when I went to school but my negative experiences will stay with me forever. Yes some teaches are jerks. I failed physical chemistry with passing marks because I complained that the professor gave the same exams every year and all the fraternities had them in the files. I failed ROTC with passing grades because I carried my rife like a suitcase. I thought what happened outside of class was none of the instructor's business. more on this later. I failed Astronomy because I could not accept a professor in his late 90's.

Bottom line I spent 4 years in a land grant school and flunked out. I wound up living in Manhattan and attended CCNY. What a difference! They actually taught!

Perhaps flunking out was the best thing to happen to me.

ps: while at CCNY I read of a student that interviewed a ROTC officer. The student had a smart come back and told the Officer he was not one of his enlistees.
6 months later that student was in Vietnam.

 

[puleknow]

At this point, I guess my question to the OP (@puleknow ) is what are you hoping for?

With respect to the grading scheme there probably isn't that much you can do about it. I understand you don't feel that it's fair, but remember that everyone else in the class is evaluated by the same system. If enough students complain about it *maybe* the professor can be convinced to change it, but that's very rare in my experience. As you progress through university, you're going to encounter different approaches to grading. Some will favour your particular strengths, some will run counter to them. And it's important that you're exposed to a variety of approaches. The real world is often less forgiving of errors than academia is.

With respect to you not being able to remember certain principles while working on problems - if I understand from your subsequent posts, it sounds like you're making a reasonable effort in your studies. If this actually is the case, I'm not sure what you're hoping this professor can do for you. The only way to get good at knowing when to apply certain principles and getting them to a state where they are readily accessible in your memory when working on problems is through study, understanding, and practice. If this isn't working (and practicing even more doesn't help), there isn't a lot a professor can do for you. There's no secret dance* that's going to improve your working memory.

With respect to the professor calling you stupid, or other derogatory behaviour - all people have a right to be treated with respect and dignity. Whether the specific behaviour is "abusive" or not is perhaps subjective and there's no point in trying to convince a bunch of people online that it is precisely as you've labelled it. Your experience is what it is. The problem is how to deal with it.

Unfortunately there may not be a lot of great options. One is to simply put your head down, slog through the course, and try to earn the best grade you can under the circumstances. Not every battle is worth fighting. But if this professor is calling you stupid and not helping you, you may need to find an alternative for figuring out the course material. This is not ideal - particularly for the cost of a university education these days, but it might be the most efficient solution.

Another option is to have an open and frank conversation with the professor about your feelings on the matter. "When you called me stupid, that made me feel belittled, was quite disrespectful, and quite frankly goes against university policy." Such conversations can be very difficult to initiate, particularly when there is a power-gradient involved. And you have to ask whether it's going to solve anything. If this professor agrees to treat you better, is that going to improve your performance in the class or your overall understanding of the material?

Others have pointed out the issues with bringing up this issue with the professor's superiors. That will likely come with consequences.

So in the end, the question comes back to: what are you hoping for at this point?
*For what it's worth, you can try cranking up the Bengals' Walk Like an Egyptian extend your right arm forward, bend your elbow and wrist at 90 degrees each, extend your left arm backward with the wrist and elbow at 90 degrees each, and pretend you're an integral. The evidence that this helps to solve integration problems however is anecdotal at best. /sarcasm

I have confronted my depression with only one professor. That is because I trust him.

I have mentioned my depression slightly with my professor. I don't think he understands what this is.

Recently I've done better in this class so this is more of a deal with it issue I guess.

i want to learn to physics and not be insulted about my career choice. About it. I mean , it's not like what I want is some magical thing I have to go soul searching for.

The issue I have with this teacher is something very basic. People have responded multiple times of direct solutions such as filling a complaint . I'am try this one . Everyone else on this thread seemed to be a jackass for some odd reason.

 

[puleknow]

I'm 75 and it's a long time from when I went to school but my negative experiences will stay with me forever. Yes some teaches are jerks. I failed physical chemistry with passing marks because I complained that the professor gave the same exams every year and all the fraternities had them in the files. I failed ROTC with passing grades because I carried my rife like a suitcase. I thought what happened outside of class was none of the instructor's business. more on this later. I failed Astronomy because I could not accept a professor in his late 90's.

Bottom line I spent 4 years in a land grant school and flunked out. I wound up living in Manhattan and attended CCNY. What a difference! They actually taught!

Perhaps flunking out was the best thing to happen to me.

ps: while at CCNY I read of a student that interviewed a ROTC officer. The student had a smart come back and told the Officer he was not one of his enlistees.
6 months later that student was in Vietnam.

Yep. I'm trying to avoid flunking just because this is actually something I want to do. I'm no fool though. I'm not going to bend over like nothing's wrong like some other people on this thread suggested. I should be my American right to cultivate the land and make the world a better place through science, not be shunned out of it and treated like some customer at a bank when the bank steals all money and toys with my very existence.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I mean racist

Racist behavior is never acceptable. Three questions:

1. Can you give an example?
2. Previously when you were asked to give examples of "abuse" you mentioned things like grading policy. Why did you not bring up the racism then? Why did you wait a month?

Everyone else on this thread seemed to be a jackass for some odd reason.

3. Does that make them racists too?

 

[puleknow]

Racist behavior is never acceptable. Three questions:

1. Can you give an example?
2. Previously when you were asked to give examples of "abuse" you mentioned things like grading policy. Why did you not bring up the racism then? Why did you wait a month?

3. Does that make them racists too?

I'm not implying racism. I'm not implying that the people responding is this thread are racist as well.

If you would extend my quote you would note that racism is not the core of this thread .

I'm saying that if a professor was to be racist (key word is TO BE) after a learning error then it would seem to be ok, because respect your professors, suck it up , or it's just the learning process.

Like wise if someone was to be condescending to your career choice and use insults or negative comments of any kind there would be a higher probability of similar response.

If I were to generalize this than anything that would restrict from the most positive and efficient learning experience possible is in my opinion unacceptable. it would then assume that this is just a social norm or a standard.

As for abusive behavior I did not say that "grading policy is absuive" this is the assumption made by many people in those thread and is just false equivalence.

In my opinion the insults are unprofessional and unproductive. I can only assume the reason to use them is to cause abuse. hence abusive.

If I were to make this objective as possible the argument above is a good start .

I don't know how a grading policy can be abusive.

I find it extremely suspicious and unhelpful for people to argue on arguments I have not created and then demand a response from essentially nothing .

Basically what you responded with is nothing I have said or mentioned about.

 

[Mark44]

No I do not get offended or angry for being wrong. I 'am ok with this. however if I'am wrong I would never expect a teacher to get angry and would always expect a level of tolerance and professionalism that comes with being a college or university professor.

I agree completely, and I think that most people responding in this thread would agree, as well.

By Insultative I mean racist, prejudice, Or uneccsarily deaming comments that do not further learning whatsoever.

From the comments I have read on this thread it seems that is ok for a teacher to be racist or insultative in such a manner.

How do you get that? Today is the first you've mentioned racist remarks. I don't believe anyone who has posted in this thread would condone a teacher making racist remarks. Can you cite any examples in this thread where you think we are condoning this kind of behavior?

I'm saying that if a professor was to be racist (key word is TO BE) after a learning error then it would seem to be ok, because respect your professors, suck it up , or it's just the learning process

Again, I can't recall anyone saying anything like this. Can you cite specific examples of what you're talking about?

 

[puleknow]

I agree completely, and I think that most people responding in this thread would agree, as well.How do you get that? Today is the first you've mentioned racist remarks. I don't believe anyone who has posted in this thread would condone a teacher making racist remarks. Can you cite any examples in this thread where you think we are condoning this kind of behavior?

Again, I can't recall anyone saying anything like this. Can you cite specific examples of what you're talking about?

The remarks from Dr. Courtney made it sound as if it's ok for the physics professors to do and say anything to you. As in follow by example.

In which case Dr. Courtney pointed out her professors as Gods.

I think Vanadium 50 told me in this thread to turn the drama down a notch but to me this was the most dramatic thing in this thread.

I don't think professors are Gods. I don't think such a viewpoint does anything to help a student in physics rather it would chain them down.

with such an exaggeration, treating professors as Gods with the only recourse being a felony then I would assume that by this language, racism , which is not a felony, would be ok.

It's his exact viewpoint of professsors is what makes me wonder if my professor has undergone a transition to a similar culture and thinks it's ok to be as negative as much as you want to students after all they are just students.

As in regards to why I think this is going that direction is primarily to the responses that have been made on this thread . I claim abuse and the responses being that it is too great a claim to be considered by a student . It's as if the personal remarks of a student and own personal struggles while learning are secondary or not an accurate source of credibility to be considered addressed.

Rape for example is a serious claim. Even if one would lie about it , I don't think any moral person would immediately dismiss the claim on the grounds of the severity of the claim.

this fundemntal lack to address claims makes me wonder if there is a culture of apathy in physics where personal emotions and the lively hoods of others are not important. So then it's ok to be racist because students should be focused on learning not there personal problems .

Such remarks baffle me as personal problems , my environment and my need to be alive should always come first before studying or learning.

Be it as controversial as it is a safe space makes those problems irrelevant. now one doesn't need to adhere to specific personal issues but basic moral principles such as being civilized, no racism , and no negativity that hampers progress should be treated all equally as important .

If one treats racism as the end be all of amoral things in academia but not name calling or insults to ones choices , one has to wonder , did they realize the point in grouping these things together? why a productive environment is important.

It draws suspicion.

These are basic things. Basic moral principles.
Or maybe due to the remarks of Dr. Courtney and Vanadium, there is a culture I'am not aware that disregards some of these things as important or worth human attention

 

[CarlM]

I worked many years as a tool and die maker, as a skilled craftsman, before college and while attending the university. When our apprentices responded as you have we would tell them to grow up. When they kept at it and started complaining that the journeyman and master craftsmen were being jackasses, as you have, they would be told the same thing accompanied by fluent and creative profanity. If they whined to the boss they would be told to get back to work and if they kept it up they might find themselves on the unemployment line.

You remind me of a young EE that I know who would tell her bosses how she needed to be trained and what they were supposed to teach her and how to direct her. She has been unable to keep employment in her field and finally gave up the field rather than recognize the problems would begin with her.

In plain words, you need to grow up and figure your own stuff out. Other people are doing it. If you cannot then you do not belong there. Attempting to read and understand the garble of your posts, I would say that if your physics skills are as bad as your communications skills then you have some serious deficiencies and hard work to do getting up to speed. If you consider this insulting then you have never faced real insults or people serious about doing you harm. If all this makes you doubt your self worth then you need to take a break and figure out what your value is and what you are about. Come back when you understand that and dealing with professors will be easy. From what I have seen in this thread you are going to have a very tough life ahead of you, speaking from a vantage on the downhill side of life..

 

[puleknow]

I worked many years as a tool and die maker, as a skilled craftsman, before college and while attending the university. When our apprentices responded as you have we would tell them to grow up. When they kept at it and started complaining that the journeyman and master craftsmen were being jackasses, as you have, they would be told the same thing accompanied by fluent and creative profanity. If they whined to the boss they would be told to get back to work and if they kept it up they might find themselves on the unemployment line.

You remind me of a young EE that I know who would tell her bosses how she needed to be trained and what they were supposed to teach her and how to direct her. She has been unable to keep employment in her field and finally gave up the field rather than recognize the problems would begin with her.

In plain words, you need to grow up and figure your own stuff out. Other people are doing it. If you cannot then you do not belong there. Attempting to read and understand the garble of your posts, I would say that if your physics skills are as bad as your communications skills then you have some serious deficiencies and hard work to do getting up to speed. If you consider this insulting then you have never faced real insults or people serious about doing you harm. If all this makes you doubt your self worth then you need to take a break and figure out what your value is and what you are about. Come back when you understand that and dealing with professors will be easy. From what I have seen in this thread you are going to have a very tough life ahead of you, speaking from a vantage on the downhill side of life..

I'm sorry what? Did you even read the post? Being insultative does not create a productive environment period.

If you can find anything at all that tells me otherwise , then by all means give the latest research paper regarding the discovery of being an ass to make good physicists.

You seem to have no idea what it is I'am saying as you dint even bother to take the time to read what it's about.

Your only further providing me with evidence that the physics community has no empathy for this sort of thing. Sad indeed.

For you maturation is confiment to an non-existent pride and ones self.

Yes , I'm sure this kind of power is exactly what you want over students?

 

[CarlM]

You just proved my point. Have a good life.

 

[puleknow]

You just proved my point. Have a good life.

What point? You din't make any. If anything you just proved my point.

 

[symbolipoint]

Last few posts are not too productive, but maybe counterproductive. Possibly you need to adapt and grow; possibly not you but the professor needs to adjust and grow; possibly both you and the professor need to adjust, adapt and grow. None of the members here really know your situation. Only they read the descriptions and posted discussions. If the professor really is so much trouble, then maybe do not attend a lab section taught by him and do not do research for/with him. If possible, do not be a student in any class or course which he teaches. Including your current class, avoid all further trouble or damage.

 

[puleknow]

Last few posts are not too productive, but maybe counterproductive. Possibly you need to adapt and grow; possibly not you but the professor needs to adjust and grow; possibly both you and the professor need to adjust, adapt and grow. None of the members here really know your situation. Only they read the descriptions and posted discussions. If the professor really is so much trouble, then maybe do not attend a lab section taught by him and do not do research for/with him. If possible, do not be a student in any class or course which he teaches. Including your current class, avoid all further trouble or damage.

He rarely teaches because of this. I personally don't have any quarrels with him it's just that he's a very bad at teaching. Most of my class agees with these . The teacher is considered one of the worst in the physics department. Our department is small so it's not like I have a choice for physics teachers.

 

[John Morrell]

I feel your frustration and it really seems like you do want to do physics for a great reason; you want to understand stuff and you want to learn and you're willing to work hard. But there are some hard truths you need to face.

You can't change the professor. You might go the department and complain, but really they can't change him either and they're definitely not going to fire him in the middle of a semester. He'll change when he decides to, and you can't really do anything about it.

Sometimes, hard work is just not enough. Sometimes, it takes some real gifts along with hard work to make things happen. Not everyone can be Einstein, not everyone can be Feynman. They didn't just work hard, they had gifts and they were in a unique situation that really let them expand on them.

Life's not fair, and unfortunately it's not going to get fair anytime soon. You might be doing nothing wrong and still get punished for it. That just happens, and frankly it's not just a college thing. That sort of stuff will happen to you for the rest of your life.

But sometimes, you'll get lucky when you don't deserve it. You'll get help or you'll understand things that you didn't work for. In fact, i guarantee that that has already happened for you. I mean, you're a student in a university studying physics at a very high level. You've learned more than most people ever will, and if you'd been born in Uganda you might never have been able to learn even that much.

My advice to you is this.
1. Remember what's going well and what you do understand, even (or especially) when you're being discouraged or stressed or have anxiety.
2. Stop trying to "fix" the professor because unfortunately it's not going to happen.
3. Stop thinking of yourself or referring to yourself as stupid; based on your education it's absolutely not true and the pity won't help you.
4. Don't value yourself based on your ability to immediately understand the stuff. That might help with ignoring the professor's comments.
5. Do what you need to to pass, and don't stress about what you can't do.

 

[Mark44]

Thread closed. The OP has complained about his professor being "insultative" but has repeatedly insulted other members of this forum, and is now banned.