Obama's speech on education banned from schools

[Hurkyl]

- Tom Friedman
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32703935/ns/meet_the_press/page/4/

What are you trying to say, Ivan?

 

[kyleb]

I am fairly sure he is suggesting there is no intellectual basis for hostility towards the plans for Obama's speech. I got the impression you were trying to say otherwise previously, but you haven't rightly been forthcoming with your position.

 

[Jasongreat]

People seem to think Obama is incapable of doing anything right because he is democratic.P

IMHO I think Obama is incapable of doing anything right because of the empirical evidence.

 

[Hurkyl]

I am fairly sure he is suggesting there is no intellectual basis for hostility towards the plans for Obama's speech.

Oh, so it's just a "They're wrong. Nyah nyah!" type post?

I got the impression you were trying to say otherwise previously, but you haven't rightly been forthcoming with your position.

My primary agenda was to make people aware that the controversy was not about Obama speaking, but about the accompanying lesson plans. This was successful. (whether or not I actually helped)

My secondary agenda is to get Ivan to stop using argument forms that boil down to "It's okay because it's Obama" and the diversionary "hey look, the Bush administration was bad".

 

[Al68]

My secondary agenda is to get Ivan to stop using argument forms that boil down to "It's okay because it's Obama" and the diversionary "hey look, the Bush administration was bad".

Good luck with that.

 

[jgens]

Since it doesn't look like anyone has posted this, here's a transcript of the speech: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/07/obama.school.speech.pdf

 

[jgens]

My primary agenda was to make people aware that the controversy was not about Obama speaking, but about the accompanying lesson plans. This was successful. (whether or not I actually helped)

This CNN article suggests that some people are upset about the idea of Obama addressing the nation's children in general: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/obama.school.speech/index.html

Granted, the most severe criticism I've heard has been about the accompanying lesson plans.

 

[Hurkyl]

This CNN article suggests that some people are upset about the idea of Obama addressing the nation's children in general: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/obama.school.speech/index.html

Interesting. I hadn't seen this; I was going by the article in the opening post.

If I interpret this article correctly, it seems that issues with the speech itself were mainly because it was a big question mark. Aside from the lesson plans, has anything persisted since the text of the speech was made public?

 

[kyleb]

Oh, so it's just a "They're wrong. Nyah nyah!" type post?

Laking any evidence to support the contrary position, that is all one rightly can do here.

My primary agenda was to make people aware that the controversy was not about Obama speaking, but about the accompanying lesson plans. This was successful. (whether or not I actually helped)

Yet, as jgens pointed out, there are people taking issue with both. Regardless, it would be helpful if you could explain the "why" here, which you seem unwilling to do.

My secondary agenda is to get Ivan to stop using argument forms that boil down to "It's okay because it's Obama" and the diversionary "hey look, the Bush administration was bad".

That isn't Ivan's argument.

 

[Al68]

Since it doesn't look like anyone has posted this, here's a transcript of the speech: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/09/07/obama.school.speech.pdf

So, after all of these posts, I get to be the first one to comment on the (current) actual speech? OK.

While I could nitpick minor details, the fact is that those concerned parents don't have much to worry about. It's pretty harmless.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

the fact is that those concerned parents don't have much to worry about. It's pretty harmless.

In other words, all of the uproar was stupid.

Was it Limbaugh who said, "He is brainwashing kids like Hitler did"?

Edit: That was Mark Shannon, not Limbaugh.

 

[turbo]

In fact the "concerned" (brainwashed) parents had nothing to worry about. As expected, it will be an inspirational speech about the value of education, urging students to take responibility for their educational outcomes. All the "no child left behind" "voucher" "charter school" gimmicks do nothing if the students are not motivated to take advantage of our educational system. That's a pretty important message.

The right-wing nuts that demonize Obama and criticize him without any clue about his intentions are troublemakers who want our president to fail, and want to convince weak-minded voters that in fact he has already failed. Will the "liberal" media cover the back-story and expose the liars for what they are? Don't hold your breath. The "liberal" media is a fiction made up to describe any organization that is to the left of Atilla the Hun, and they will not cover the lies and duplicity of the right for fear of being attacked. The "liberal" media are in fact owned by large corporations whose administrators often have more in common with the neo-cons than with any liberal or progressive group.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No doubt about it Turbo. Some of these people who HATE Obama, and scary numbers of them, have been brainwashed.

 

[WhoWee]

In other words, all of the uproar was stupid.

Was it Limbaugh who said, "He is brainwashing kids like Hitler did"?

Edit: That was Mark Shannon, not Limbaugh.

On the other hand, it demonstrates that people are finally starting to examine Obama closely.

 

[OmCheeto]

This just in:

http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/20767220/detail.html"
Posted: 11:15 pm EDT September 6, 2009
OSCEOLA COUNTY, Fla. -- Children in Osceola County will be able to watch President Barack Obama's address after all.

An earlier statement from the Osceola County school district indicated it did not have the bandwidth to show the online version to all students, a district official said.

Recent media reports stating the district had banned the speech were incorrect, a district spokeswoman told WFTV.

Oh my. Googling "Obama's speech on education banned from schools" brings up PF as the number 2 hit. I think we need to get a life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V3FnpaWQJO0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V3FnpaWQJO0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Hurkyl]

In other words, all of the uproar was stupid.

Erm... so the lesson is we should never be wary of government, just in case it turns out it's all okay?

 

[OmCheeto]

Erm... so the lesson is we should never be wary of government, just in case it turns out it's all okay?

I don't know how Ivan would answer the question, but I'd say we should always be wary of the government, regardless of the president's cosmic origins.

 

[noblegas]

In fact the "concerned" (brainwashed) parents had nothing to worry about. As expected, it will be an inspirational speech about the value of education, urging students to take responibility for their educational outcomes. All the "no child left behind" "voucher" "charter school" gimmicks do nothing if the students are not motivated to take advantage of our educational system. That's a pretty important message.

The right-wing nuts that demonize Obama and criticize him without any clue about his intentions are troublemakers who want our president to fail, and want to convince weak-minded voters that in fact he has already failed. Will the "liberal" media cover the back-story and expose the liars for what they are? Don't hold your breath. The "liberal" media is a fiction made up to describe any organization that is to the left of Atilla the Hun, and they will not cover the lies and duplicity of the right for fear of being attacked. The "liberal" media are in fact owned by large corporations whose administrators often have more in common with the neo-cons than with any liberal or progressive group.

Yep same old same old. Obama will probably give a similar speech that other presidents have given to students in the past;Stay in school,be a good citizen, ... in other words, never acknowledge why public school is a complete disaster right now, why on average the government invest on average $9000 per year per student , which amounts to almost $100000 for attending public school for 13 years, yet there are students who are graduating with subpar reading skills and students who probably do not know what the bill of rights are and what our 3 branches of government are; This is$100,000 practically thrown out the window; Can you imagine what you it would be like if you investing $100000 in something and got nothing in return? It would be like a pomzi scheme! Students will continued to be screwed by the public education system if such a pattern continues;

There might be some "right wing nuts" that are being paranoid about obama address to a group of school children ; I really don't know , I did not read the original report that many have said has change; At the same time, I see a lot of left wingers labeling right wingers who questioned some of the policies that obama plans to implement as paronoid and not right wingers who have legitimate concerns about the some of the presidents initiaitves; And many left wingers seem to be blindly accepting some of obama's policy simply because
he is one of there own; Right wingers would do the same thing if bush were in office;

The "liberal" media are in fact owned by large corporations whose administrators often have more in common with the neo-cons than with any liberal or progressive group.

The liberal media is a fiction? Are you serious? Are you aware that 90 percent of journalists considered themselves democratic?(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485)

...MSNBC.com identified 143 journalists who made political contributions from 2004 through the start of the 2008 campaign, according to the public records of the Federal Election Commission. Most of the newsroom checkbooks leaned to the left: 125 journalists gave to Democrats and liberal causes. Only 16 gave to Republicans. Two gave to both parties ...

Have you been watching MSNBC lately ?; They don't have any news reporters on their channel, just a bunch of leftist pundits who try to portray one political viewpoint in each of their showsl

 

[Hurkyl]

Yep same old same old. Obama will probably give a similar speech that other presidents have given to students in the past;Stay in school,be a good citizen, ... in other words, never acknowledge why public school is a complete disaster right now ...

And why would he? Whether true or false, it's a completely inappropriate topic for this speech.

 

[noblegas]

And why would he? It would be a completely inappropriate topic for this address.

why give a speech if you aren't even going to address the problems with the school system? Why tell students to stay in school if the public school system is generally doing such a crappy job of teaching its students? Telling students" To stay in school, and work hard" are just empty words to evoke a false sense of positive thinking;

 

[Hurkyl]

If you want to argue that no education at all is better than being educated in the current system, then go start a thread on the topic, and stop derailing this one.

 

[noblegas]

If you want to argue that no education at all is better than being educated in the current system, then go start a thread on the topic, and stop derailing this one.

I did not say no education at all is better than the current form of education, I just think there are either serious reforms that need to be made in our public education system if public schools are going produce better results for their students, or students should seek alternatives options to public school(homeschooling, voucher, charter, whatever...) ; But giving a speech in front of 300 or so students will not improve the quality of education the students are receiving; they haven't inspired students to do better for the last 50 years and the current
speech that obama will present to students will not likely inspired them to perform better in school now; Seriously , when have speeches been an effective force in motivating people to perform better in school or in their careers; Do you remember the speech on education the speaker at your high school and college graduation or whatever special ceremony/occasion was taking place?

Instead of lecturing the kids (lecture which they will probably forget,for students retain 2 percent of lectures), he should asked them what they think of the education they are receiving in the public school system, and then he should asked the students about their dissatisfaction with some areas of the public school system and asked the students some of there suggestions on how public school can be improved;

 

[kyleb]

Erm... so the lesson is we should never be wary of government, just in case it turns out it's all okay?

Surely you can come up with a better plan than that? I contend should always be wary of government, but it would be nice if we could avoid getting riled up over completely unfounded concerns. That would save us a lot of hassle, our chasing imaginary WMD over in Iraq being one notable example.

 

[Wax]

The liberal media is a fiction? Are you serious? Are you aware that 90 percent of journalists considered themselves democratic?(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113485) Have you been watching MSNBC lately ?; They don't have any news reporters on their channel, just a bunch of leftist pundits who try to portray one political viewpoint in each of their showsl

Yes, the liberal media is fiction. Most news channels will show both view points and not bash on the president because they don't believe in his policies. The only news station that does that is Fox News. They are clearly out to get Obama at any costs, even if he does something right. I have yet to see any other news station promote Obama's police as strong as Fox News bashes him. Labeling most of the media Liberal for showing both view points without promoting an agenda is propaganda. It's fear mongering created entirely by Fox News.

 

[noblegas]

Yes, the liberal media is fiction. Most news channels will show both view points and not bash on the president because they don't believe in his policies. The only news station that does that is Fox News. They are clearly out to get Obama at any costs, even if he does something right. I have yet to see any other news station promote Obama's police as strong as Fox News bashes him. Labeling most of the media Liberal for showing both view points without promoting an agenda is propaganda. It's fear mongering created entirely by Fox News.

I did not admit that Fox news was not bias; The bias of MSNBC is just not acknowledge that much as Fox news; Janeane Garofalo was on Keith olbermann show and she labeled all the protesters at the tea rally that took place in April-May as "stupid rednecks who hate that a black man is president" and Keith Olbermann did not call her out for her remark ; One of the news anchors on msnbc did something sleazy and tried to portrayed that black guy who carried the gun at the healthcare rally as an angry white racist by not showing all of his body (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/19/unreal-msnbc-edits-clip-of-man-with-gun-at-obama-rally-to-support-racism-narrative/); Both msnbc and Fox news are politically slanted on opposites sides of the political spectrum; At least cnn makes an effort to try be present both political viewpoints; They made a bad move by firing paula zahn though ;

 

[Choronzon]

I did not admit that Fox news was not bias; The bias of MSNBC is just not acknowledge that much as Fox news; Janeane Garofalo was on Keith olbermann show and she labeled all the protesters at the tea rally that took place in April-May as "stupid rednecks who hate that a black man is president" and Keith Olbermann did not call her out for her remark ; One of the news anchors on msnbc did something sleazy and tried to portrayed that black guy who carried the gun at the healthcare rally as an angry white racist by not showing all of his body (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/19/unreal-msnbc-edits-clip-of-man-with-gun-at-obama-rally-to-support-racism-narrative/); Both msnbc and Fox news are politically slanted on opposites sides of the political spectrum; At least cnn makes an effort to try be present both political viewpoints; They made a bad move by firing paula zahn though ;

Your link didn't work.

 

[Hurkyl]

... Instead of lecturing the kids ...

Instead of derailing this thread, you should start a new thread.

 

[Hurkyl]

if we could avoid getting riled up over completely unfounded concerns.

Are they really unfounded? We have direct empirical evidence of at least one person arguing tooth-and-nail that Obama should push a political agenda with this speech.

 

[russ_watters]

I wonder if we'll be seeing parents keeping their kids home from school in protest?

 

[kyleb]

Most news channels will show both view points...

Rather, they promote the myth that there is only two view points.

Are they really unfounded? We have direct empirical evidence of at least one person arguing tooth-and-nail that Obama should push a political agenda with this speech.

I can find you a bunch of people arguing tooth an nail that alien beings are plotting to enslave humanity. Are you going to get riled up over that?