Open Circuit Voltage and Short Circuit Voltage

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of open circuit voltage (Voc) and short circuit current in a specific circuit configuration. Participants explore methods for analyzing the circuit using techniques such as the current loop method, Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL), and node voltage analysis. The focus is on understanding how to apply these methods to a circuit that includes a current source, which has led to confusion among participants.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their solution for Voc and struggles with finding the short circuit current, indicating confusion with the circuit's configuration.
  • Another participant reassures that the initial findings appear correct but does not provide further validation.
  • A participant questions how to apply the loop method to their circuit, referencing a colored picture from Khan Academy that suggests a special case application.
  • It is suggested that the loop method may not be applicable due to the presence of a common current source, and that KCL should be used instead, with references to 'supermesh' and 'supernode' concepts.
  • A proposed approach involves connecting a resistor across the terminals and solving the circuit symbolically, then taking limits to find the short circuit current and open circuit voltage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method to analyze the circuit. There are differing opinions on the applicability of the loop method and the use of KCL, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty regarding the correct approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of the voltage across the current source and the implications of not having a resistance in the circuit. The discussion reflects unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on specific circuit configurations.

Marcin H
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Homework Statement


Screen Shot 2016-09-05 at 2.08.23 PM.png


Homework Equations


V=IR
Current Loop method, KCL, Node Voltage

The Attempt at a Solution


I am struggling with this problem because I haven't seen a circuit like this before. I think I found the Voc correctly (4V) but I am stuck with finding the short circuit current. I tried using the current loop rule with 2 loops but it's confusing and doesn't seem to work.
Screen Shot 2016-09-05 at 2.33.20 PM.png

I also tried this way (above) with one big loop and one small but then I get stuck because I don't know how to find the voltage across the 2i source in my problem. I don't have a resistance so I can't really make an equation for the small loop. I ended up using KCL and the big loop which gave me something, but I don't know if what I did is valid or correct. The current source in the middle is really throwing me off and I am not too sure how to deal with it.

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Marcin H said:
but I don't know if what I did is valid or correct
It all looks correct to me.
 
cnh1995 said:
All looks correct to me.
How do you do the loop method in this problem like in the colored picture? That pic was from khan Academy and they said that is a special case and that's the way to do it. How can that method be applied to my circuit? We don't know the voltage across the current source and I can't think of a way to find it.
 
Marcin H said:
How do you do the loop method in this problem like in the colored picture
The loop method doesn't work in such cases. Since both the loops have a common current source and you directly don't know the voltage across it, you have to take help of KCL here. Look up the concepts 'supermesh' and 'supernode'.
 
Connect a resistor R across the a/b terminals. Solve the circuit leaving the resistor R as a symbolic variable. You will get a value for ix involving the variable R. Take the limit as R→0 and you will get the value for ix you already have. Allow R→∞ and get ix when the a/b terminals are open circuited. Knowing ix (and thus i), you can calculate the voltage drop across the 1Ω resistor in the left loop and then the voltage across a/b.
 

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