Oumuamua may be an alien lightsail?

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’Oumuamua, the first interstellar object observed in the Solar System, exhibited deviations from a Keplerian orbit, which some attribute to solar radiation pressure rather than cometary activity. The object’s thin structure, potentially akin to a light sail, raises questions about its origins and trajectory, with some speculating it could be an alien artifact or debris from an advanced civilization. Discussions highlight the possibility of alternative explanations for its acceleration, such as venting gases rather than light pressure. The object's low speed and lack of detectable signals further complicate the notion of it being an exploratory craft. Overall, while the idea of ’Oumuamua as an alien probe is intriguing, the lack of definitive evidence keeps the discussion speculative.
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Discussed here
https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2018/10/29/on-oumuamua-thin-films-and-lightsails/

referencing this paper by Baily & Loeb @ Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics

’Oumuamua (1I/2017 U1) is the first object of interstellar origin observed in the Solar system. Recently, Micheli et al. (2018) reported that ’Oumuamua showed deviations from a Keplerian orbit at a high statistical significance. The observed trajectory is best explained by an excess radial acceleration ∆a ∝ r −2 , where r is the distance of ’Oumuamua from the Sun. Such an acceleration is naturally expected for comets, driven by the evaporating material. However, recent observational and theoretical studies imply that ’Oumuamua is not an active comet. We explore the possibility that the excess acceleration results from Solar radiation pressure. The required mass-to-area ratio is m/A ≈ 0.1 g cm−2 . For a thin sheet, this requires a width of w ≈ 0.3−0.9 mm. We find that although extremely thin, such an object would survive an interstellar travel over Galactic distances of ∼ 5 kpc , withstanding collisions with gas and dust-grains as well as stresses from rotation and tidal forces. We discuss the possible origins of such an object.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.11490.pdf
 
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"We have shown that the observed non-gravitational acceleration of ’Oumuamua, may be explained by Solar radiation pressure."
I think this part is important. Is it possible that there can be any other explanations ?. Also I think its also important to think how it can be so thin ? If its alien lightsail then where it is going ?
 
Arman777 said:
"We have shown that the observed non-gravitational acceleration of ’Oumuamua, may be explained by Solar radiation pressure."
I think this part is important. Is it possible that there can be any other explanations ?. Also I think its also important to think how it can be so thin ? If its alien lightsail then where it is going ?

There can be other explanations. If you assume their calculated density of 0.1 g/cm2 then you do not need much gas to accelerate.

An alien popped balloon works better than an alien light sail. Accelerating a light weight object requires much less gas so failure to detect gas would be expected. For example, if the density is 1 g/cm2 you get 90% acceleration from gas and 10% light pressure. Instead of a balloon you could use a foam or aerogel.

Arman777 said:
... If its alien lightsail then where it is going ?
Imagine asking that question on an island when you observe a polymer bag drifting by in the wind. A garbage bag or shopping bag would be my first two guesses based on experience with litter in the USA. Trying to decipher the original purpose without getting a sample would be challenging.
You could also consider wind dispersed seeds. Cottonwood trees and dandelions do not likely know where they are sending seeds, perhaps "down wind". Wind dispersed pollen has a target destination but the tree hits the target by shotgun strategy. You can speculate on what evolutionary advantages a tree gains by causing human allergies but it is not likely to generate a good model of a tree.
 
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stefan r said:
Imagine asking that question on an island when you observe a polymer bag drifting by in the wind. A garbage bag or shopping bag would be my first two guesses based on experience with litter in the USA. Trying to decipher the original purpose without getting a sample would be challenging.
You could also consider wind dispersed seeds. Cottonwood trees and dandelions do not likely know where they are sending seeds, perhaps "down wind". Wind dispersed pollen has a target destination but the tree hits the target by shotgun strategy. You can speculate on what evolutionary advantages a tree gains by causing human allergies but it is not likely to generate a good model of a tree.

Thanks for your explanation.

Well you are right on that matter, I thought that, we can calculate its trajectory and find out that maybe its headed to another solar system.
 
Well if it's some kind of exploratory craft, it appears to have decided that the solar system wasn't that interesting.
 
Didn't I read somewhere that there is one of these 'Oumuamua-type excursions into the Solar System every day, it's just that they go unobserved and unrecorded? It would seem unlikely that they are all alien artifacts, or even a small percentage of them. Or the universe would be crawling and overrun with Ancient Civilizations.
 
Michael Price said:
Or the universe would be crawling and overrun with Ancient Civilizations.

Unless the artifacts are Berserkers.
 
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The actual imaging I've been able to see doesn't show a rocky uneven "rock" but rather a uniform shape. Could this be due to a low resolution?
 
Sanborn Chase said:
The actual imaging I've been able to see doesn't show a rocky uneven "rock" but rather a uniform shape. Could this be due to a low resolution?

Do you have any links to these "actual images"? I don't think there is optical system in existence that is even close to being able to resolve 'Oumuamua at the distances involved even at closest approach.
 
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  • #10
Will intercepting Oumuamua with a probe ever be possible? Or is it too fast? Too hard to find where it will go in that time?
 
  • #11
Algr said:
Will intercepting Oumuamua with a probe ever be possible? Or is it too fast? Too hard to find where it will go in that time?
Its not possible to send a probe. Its too fast
 
  • #12
I'm sorry, but I can't find the image I saw months ago. I think it was a radar image; could Arecibo resolve it?
 
  • #13
Michael Price said:
Didn't I read somewhere that there is one of these 'Oumuamua-type excursions into the Solar System every day, it's just that they go unobserved and unrecorded? It would seem unlikely that they are all alien artifacts, or even a small percentage of them. Or the universe would be crawling and overrun with Ancient Civilizations.
Its possible i guess. Its hard to believe that it can be some sort of ailen lightsail...since it has not emitting radio signals..
 
  • #14
I agree "alien probe" would be towards the end of my list.
 
  • #15
Arman777 said:
Its possible i guess. Its hard to believe that it can be some sort of ailen lightsail...since it has not emitting radio signals..

The paper written on it just says thin film accelerated by sunlight. If you assume artificial objects made by a civilization, then trash is by far the most likely object we will see.
If a radio used a light sail to slow down it might make make sense to jettison the sail after passing the Sun. The sail could have tether launched a small probe which then made a close pass on one of the planets. All of the planets were on the same side of the Sun this year.
 
  • #16
If this object were venting volatiles from the side being warmed by the Sun, this could result in a reaction force that might mimic acceleration from solar pressure. Could these two scenarios be differentiated by observation? What I mean is; could we tell the difference, just by looking, between an object so light that it gets noticeable acceleration from solar wind, and a much heavier object being accelerated by reaction force from the venting of volatiles? Would the cloud created by so much venting necessarily be visible to us?
 
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  • #17
Actual observations of 10:1 varying light curve from 25 to 27 October 2017, four or five months after the object entered the inner solar system, and more than a month after it swung around closest to the Sun:

https://i.postimg.cc/TPVSsppY/Oumuamua-light-curve-25-to-27-October-2018.png

Oumuamua light curve - 25 to 27 October 2018.png
 

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  • #18
Wow, that looks remarkably consistent to me. Is that normal? Specifically; is it normal for the signal to remain so uniform from one end to the other? I know it’s only a spread of about two days, but at the speed this thing was going, surely by the end of observation on the 27th we were seeing it from a significantly different angle from the one we saw at the beginning of the graph, on the 25th, right? Please, someone with more experience take a look at that chart and tell me if it looks normal. Not that we have much to which to compare regarding, “normal compared to other extrasolar objects we’ve observed passing through our system “, but do asteroids and burned out comets usually look like that?
 
  • #19
Does anyone else find this to be the most compelling possibility of alien contact since the Wow! signal? I find it a lot more compelling actually. I am a bit disappointed with the unenthusiastic response from many scientists.

There really has never been anything like this in human history and we were alive to see it. At the very least it is the first interstellar object we have ever seen up close, but it is sufficiently weird that the hairs on the back of my neck...well. It really could be an alien probe. So far at least that is a very real possibility and I think that is worth admitting. Absolutely no evidence can rule that out at this point.

What I would like to see is what data we have that makes this possibility less likely. The first disappointment for me is that it is traveling so slow. Only 26 km/sec or 0.000087c. Well below what even our primitive tech could accomplish if we had infinite money. Even we could get up to 0.05c with nuclear pulsed Orion ships or more speculative but promising designs like fission fragment or nuclear salt water.

It has always been assumed that any aliens who made contact with us would be far more advanced because we are so primitive that if they were any less advanced they could not communicate with us or even find us and a similar level of science development is just utterly improbable.

But we don't really know much about this object aside from maybe its overall mass and size, interstellar trajectory with active adjustments, and its weird changing albedo. Has anyone checked to see if the albedo changes are nonrandom? Maybe they say Hello World or Prepare to be exterminated, Earthlings.

If it is an alien probe its subtle behavior and low speed could be explained by it being part of a swarm program. Maybe hundreds of thousands of slow and basic solar sail crafts were manufactured and launched to explore the galaxy. Maybe it releases a mini probe too small for us to detect to explore each system and report back with neutrino or gamma ray laser pulses or some other communication system way beyond our level.

Even in the unlikely event the miniprobe used microwave RF transmission it would be above 100 Ghz and would be directed away from us so even if we were listening at such high frequencies that are mostly absorbed by our thick atmosphere we wouldn't detect it.

If it actually does try to make contact with us I would imagine it would try several methods limited by cost and mass considerations and the fact that maybe they cannot predict what RF or EM frequencies could make it through our atmosphere. Even if the source civ is or was alive it may or may not be life as we know it. They may not assume a thick Nitrogen Oxygen mix. Surely laser pulses would be a safe bet though. We should be looking for those as well as 77Ghz, 29-32 Ghz, and 9-12 Ghz microwave pulses coming from a likely perihelion transfer solar orbit.

It is possible that the mini-probes do not have sufficient intelligence or detection capabilities to decide on their own if they detect a planet with life or intelligent life and that they just transmit back neutrino pulses or whatever with images and spectroscopy and other analytic data upon arrival. If that's the case we may not know for hundreds of years about the probe's presence due to the round trip communication times. Any system with intelligent life is very unlikely to be closer than 100 ly even if intelligent life is very abundant in our galaxy.

If it is an alien artifact of some kind and did not drop a payload will we be able to detect if it turns around and comes back in an omgwtf double take pattern in 50-250 years from now? Or even sooner if it is a smart enough device to see that there is something very very odd about the third planet?
 
  • #20
Another now obvious explanation for its slow speed just occurred to me. It could have been decelerating for many years bevore arriving here for its solar slingshot. The alien civ would want its solar system tour to be slow enough to take photos and do spectroscopy. You would not want to enter the system at 0.7c or whatever they are capable of. Now the question is will it burn its thrusters again to accelerate when it gets past the final planet in its trajectory?

Or maybe it is just a solar sail probe. But wait...can we measure the small acceleration or deceleration that a solar sail around the size of the object would experience? Would a solar sail not have a slightly different trajectory around the sun than either a normal asteroid or a cigar shaped vehicle without a sail? It would be a powered object rather rather than a passive one.

Btw I am excited by the possibility but I am not making any claim whatsover that this is in fact an alien artifact. I would bet large sums of money on our not seeing an object like this again in any of our lifetimes though. I am skeptical of the several times per year idea. Interstellar objects are probably rare and ones whose trajectories just happen to intersect with other star systems are rarer still I would imagine. Before this I believe the general consensus was that they did not exist at all. Now all of a sudden they are supposed to be routine. Right. Any theories on how such an object might attain escape velocity from its solar orbit in the first place?
 
  • #21
From all of the articles that I've read, the issue is not slow speed, but the current slowing of speed. What has people interested is not the velocity at which the object is moving, but the fact that that velocity is changing. It is therefore undergoing some kind of propulsion.
 
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  • #22
Yes well in the Why It May Be an Artifact column that, along with its oddly changing albedo is the most compelling evidence which even if explained by the irregularly wobbling cigar shape theory is I think unlike the albedo of any known local object.

Also the fact that it is the first and after an entire year still the only interstellar object we have ever seen and that its trajectory was just so perfect, aiming for a close flyby with the Goldilocks zone of the inner planets, of Earth and Mars, and then slingshotting around the sun just inside the orbit of Mercury just close enough to the sun for a nice gravity assist or Oberth burn but not so close as to require special materials or elaborate solar shielding. At 0.255 AU its perihelion is almost exactly what NASA would have planned and did plan with Helios A and B with perihelions of 0.31 AU and 0.29 AU respectively. It is pretty much exactly what we would expect an alien starship to look like too. Although if it is a wobbly cigar that argues against an actively piloted ship.

After taking the time to examine all the admittedly limited data I think it it really may be an alien artifact of some kind because any other explanation seems unlikely as well. If it is natural it is entirely unlike anything we have seen before. It is not a comet or an asteroid and it is much too small to be a planetoid.

We don't have any way to explain how a natural object could present this way. We just dont. The data is just not consistent with any natural explanation. I was thinking it could be an icy asteroid like sort of an asteroid-comet hybrid but we have never seen such an object and then why no tail or outgassing and the changing albedo would not fit unless it were an irregularly wobbling long cigar shaped icy asteroid which is again totally unlike any natural object we have ever seen. But maybe the Lyra mission will catch up with it and the images it sends back will be of a perfect ice cylinder, like a sort of 2001 monolith but made of ice. The reddish color may argue against an ice surface though. For all we know it is a monolith but perhaps cranberry red. This seems a lot more like science fiction than anything real. Are we inside a narrative now?

It is amazing but I actually think it being an alien artifact is the only explanation we currently have that would fit all the data. An old derelict ship with a solar sail or an active probe that is cigar shaped and wobbling for some reason. The fact that we can't trace its trajectory from or toward anything in particular seems to argue against it being actively piloted at least and the wobbling does too.

But if it is an active object it may not even turn on its main method of propulsion within a solar system. Once it gets past Neptune though maybe it will turn on its Improbability Drive and light up the sky with blue Cherenkov radiation or make gravity wave ripples that shake the planets slightly like a large ship wake leaving a harbor. Then it may change its trajectory for another perfect slingshot around Barnards star or Ross 128 or even make a short hop over to Alpha Centauri.
 
  • #23
What if in 100 years we build our own probe driven by a fission fragment propulsion system that can quickly catch up to this slow and supposedly passive object but when we arrive at where it should be it just isn't there?
 
  • #24
If it was an alien probe it would almost certainly have as part of it's mission an agenda to detect life supporting planets.
Earth is such a planet and it didn't seem to be interested.
Also, it has long been suspec6ted that there could be some fairly large chunks of stuff existing in interstellar space.
Leftover stuff form forming of solar systems, possibly even whole planets that got ejected from a solar system
 
  • #25
It would probably be more efficient to use a mothership that dropped smaller probes that themselves would slow down and do the complex orbital manuevers to start sending back data and images either using the mothership as a relay station or send the digital data back many light years themselves using advanced alien tech. These smaller probes could be the size of a pack of cigarettes and would be far too small to be seen unless they wanted to reveal themselves by aiming a transmitter at us. Probably a laser.

So it may have dropped a payload of micro-probes already or it could be a derelict ship, a failed mission launched millions of years ago. Even advanced aliens are not immune to things going badly wrong. Technology is not always enough to prevent failure as stone age cave dwellers might observe if they were here now. The failed interstellar mission idea seems particularly compelling to me.
 
  • #26
I am almost 50 now and for most of my life I think the consensus has been that interstellar objects were highly speculative and extremely rare and that we should not really ever expect to see any. I guess sort of like intergalactic objects might be regarded now. Sure now it is easy to point to past theories that mostly only science fiction authors paid attention to and say well of course. So far the predictions that we would start seeing more of these objects now that we are looking for them have failed.

The Ice Limit by Douglas Preston and Lincoln child featured an interstellar asteroid and I remember how far fetched and speculative it seemed when I read it at the time. Of course being the entertaining but trashy but fun writers that they are they pushed it even farther than that but it was just science fiction until now. Were there really a lot of scientists predicting we would start seeing these things? I guess I should just check an old astronomy textbook, but I think not. I think the next editions of many astronomy and astrophysics textbooks are going to have the word Oumuamua in them now. Of course if we do catch up with this thing one day and it is a million year old ship or monolith or ice sculpture or something even stranger then interstellar asteroids will remain in the realm of science fiction.
 
  • #27
Sanborn Chase said:
I'm sorry, but I can't find the image I saw months ago. I think it was a radar image; could Arecibo resolve it?
no resolution.

NASA released an artist's image. That is the official picture.
 
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  • #28
If the difficulties of doing so could be surmounted, could an Earth-based sub-millimeter VLBI system resolve it? I feel sure many of the variables of this case present a formidable challenge for such an array to do so, but would the sheer resolving power exist? Thanks.
 
  • #29
Sanborn Chase said:
If the difficulties of doing so could be surmounted, could an Earth-based sub-millimeter VLBI system resolve it? I feel sure many of the variables of this case present a formidable challenge for such an array to do so, but would the sheer resolving power exist? Thanks.
If oumuamua had 2 cell phones broadcasting the vlbi would be a good system for figuring out where they were with respect to each other. I think they can get down to a milliarcseconds. A milliarcsecond would have given 2 pixels the long way and would be back to 1 pixel on short side.
I am not sure how much radio wavelengths were bouncing off of Oumuamua. The signal needs to exceed the background noise.
 
  • #30
metiman said:
the fact that it is the first and after an entire year still the only interstellar object we have ever seen

Oh boy, *entire year* and we didn't see another one? I'm sure you know that in the last 400 years, this one is the first. Why are you surprised we didn't see two in 1 year timespan? Telescopes do improve, but not THAT fast.

If it is natural it is entirely unlike anything we have seen before. It is not a comet or an asteroid and it is much too small to be a planetoid.

We don't have any way to explain how a natural object could present this way. We just dont. The data is just not consistent with any natural explanation.

What are you talking about?
Its behavior is explained quite well by a theory that it's an oblong chunk of rock.
 
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  • #31
metiman said:
I am almost 50 now and for most of my life I think the consensus has been that interstellar objects were highly speculative and extremely rare

No, this wasn't the consensus. Interstellar objects were expected to be seen inevitably. A number of similar objects probably flew through our system undetected in the last ~200 years. As large survey telescopes become more numerous, we finally saw one.
 
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  • #32
Could a VLBI system be used to "paint" such an object? Has anyone used the system as a radar?
 
  • #34
nikkkom said:
No, this wasn't the consensus. Interstellar objects were expected to be seen inevitably. A number of similar objects probably flew through our system undetected in the last ~200 years. As large survey telescopes become more numerous, we finally saw one.
The advent of digital imaging and the use of space telescopes had meant that the flow of useful data has increased many orders of magnitude. Even the management of the data has improved and so any worker who wants a certain type of data can find it and analyse it. It's not surprising that new objects are being found on an almost daily basis where they were found very infrequently in the days of Messier and his pals.
 
  • #35
Sophiecentaur said"...so any worker who wants a certain type of data can find it and analyse it."
Whoa! I think he's correct about our increase in data and our ability to organize and analyse it, but is it that simple? Could the bane of the Information Age be searching for that last bit of confirming data from the previous work of others?
 
  • #36
Sanborn Chase said:
Sophiecentaur said"...so any worker who wants a certain type of data can find it and analyse it."
Whoa! I think he's correct about our increase in data and our ability to organize and analyse it, but is it that simple? Could the bane of the Information Age be searching for that last bit of confirming data from the previous work of others?
If you want to see a certain piece of sky, I think that it wouldn't be too hard to find a number of images of it. Large telescope "owners" gather far more data than they are capable of analysing on their own and are only too pleased to make it available (at a price, no doubt. The running costs are quite high. Windolene is not cheap!
 
  • #37
Please consider an unbound interstellar object approaching our sun with initial impact parameter D measured in AU

If the body has high positive total energy, it won't deflect very much from its initial path as it approaches the sun... And so we would overlook most of such objects, as they traveled quickly through the outer reaches of our system (unless they happened to be aimed straight at the sun, which is unlikely, the differential capture cross section increases as 2 pi R dR)

So the only unbound interstellar objects that we are likely to observe are those with low or zero total energy, because only they would be deflected appreciably towards the Sun, into the inner solar system, where we would be able to detect them

Such objects would move along approximately parabolic trajectories

Have people observed parabolic trajectory objects? Could any of them possibly be interstellar in origin also?
 
  • #38
TEFLing said:
Have people observed parabolic trajectory objects?

of course ... just about every comet
TEFLing said:
Could any of them possibly be interstellar in origin also?

well, Oumuamua, is considered the first one
 
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  • #39
davenn said:
of course ... just about every comet

well, Oumuamua, is considered the first one
technically, a parabolic trajectory is not localized to the Sun's vicinity ?

Knowing what's actually out there would be valuable info for Project Breakthrough Starships & such
 
  • #40
TEFLing said:
technically, a parabolic trajectory is not localized to the Sun's vicinity?
I don’t know if you are unsure, or the question mark is a typo, but you are correct; a parabola is an escape trajectory. Comets have an elliptical orbit, just one with a high degree of eccentricity.

https://www.eso.org/public/usa/news/eso1820/

It appears that the international team studying the object have concluded that outgassing is indeed the cause of the acceleration.

Now that we have the ability to detect extrasolar objects passing through our system, I’m really looking forward to seeing what we find next. I’ve heard estimates that, every year, at least one object passes within 1’AU of the Sun, and up to 10,000 pass within the orbital radius of Neptune. I guess now we’ll start to see if those estimates are anywhere near accurate.
 
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  • #41
LURCH said:
I don’t know if you are unsure, or the question mark is a typo, but you are correct; a parabola is an escape trajectory. Comets have an elliptical orbit, just one with a high degree of eccentricity.

https://www.eso.org/public/usa/news/eso1820/

It appears that the international team studying the object have concluded that outgassing is indeed the cause of the acceleration.

Now that we have the ability to detect extrasolar objects passing through our system, I’m really looking forward to seeing what we find next. I’ve heard estimates that, every year, at least one object passes within 1’AU of the Sun, and up to 10,000 pass within the orbital radius of Neptune. I guess now we’ll start to see if those estimates are anywhere near accurate.
That would translate to 10,000 objects per 1-10 thousand cubic AU or so (given an average relative velocity of order tens of km/s)?

One object per cubic AU would be about 8,000 trillion objects per cubic parsec, comparable to the figure quoted in the PBS space time episode about Oumuamua... E16 objects x e10kg per object = Neptune mass... Doesn't seem implausible
 
  • #42
nikkkom said:
Oh boy, *entire year* and we didn't see another one? I'm sure you know that in the last 400 years, this one is the first. Why are you surprised we didn't see two in 1 year timespan? Telescopes do improve, but not THAT fast.

Some people are arguing that interstellar objects like this, whether natural or artificial, are quite common and that only now do we have the tech to see them and now that we can we should be seeing as many as 10 per year. My recollection is that most astronomers were not really expecting to see them either, but that may be wrong. Were people really searching for interstellar asteroids before? Until we see another one I am going to continue to assume that they are exceedingly rare to nonexistent. If we do see another one it will certainly make the artificial origin idea seem less plausible, at least to me.
What are yzou talking about?
Its behavior is explained quite well by a theory that it's an oblong chunk of rock.

A rock that can accelerate away under its own power you mean. A cigar shaped one. No I don't think we have seen anything like that before outside of science fiction novels. An object with an interstellar trajectory that makes a beeline for the Goldilocks zone and with a NASA-like perihelion and with a strange shape and unusual albedo and that can accelerate. Not an asteroid at least as we know it.
 
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  • #44
metiman said:
Some people are arguing that interstellar objects like this, whether natural or artificial, are quite common and that only now do we have the tech to see them and now that we can we should be seeing as many as 10 per year. My recollection is that most astronomers were not really expecting to see them either, but that may be wrong. Were people really searching for interstellar asteroids before? Until we see another one I am going to continue to assume that they are exceedingly rare to nonexistent. If we do see another one it will certainly make the artificial origin idea seem less plausible, at least to me.

A rock that can accelerate away under its own power you mean. A cigar shaped one. No I don't think we have seen anything like that before outside of science fiction novels. An object with an interstellar trajectory that makes a beeline for the Goldilocks zone and with a NASA-like perihelion and with a strange shape and unusual albedo and that can accelerate. Not an asteroid at least as we know it.
Please do remember, we live in our own star's HZ...

and can only observe Oumuamua like objects when they basically buzz our planet... which is in our own HZ...

your words are true, and can be explained purely by current "selection bias"

To fully justify your conclusion, we'd have to task the cameras onboard Voyager 1, 2 and New Horizons to scan the skies for interstellar objects... and fail to observe any

Only then would you be truly justified in suggesting that Oumuamua was somehow suspiciously unique, or something like that

Possibly, our long range probes would detect innumerable other objects barreling through the outer solar system (which would suggest the opposite, that interstellar objects are quite common)
 
  • #45
Aliens are the modern equivalent to Ghosts, magic and Polytheism, I think. The more you look and the wider your 'acceptance window', the more likely you are to find possible evidence. In addition to the vast distances involved and the limited time window for traces of a 'civilisation' to be intercepted by humans, there is the equally huge possible variation in cultures and brain functions. We could be receiving all sorts of signs and messages but just not recognising them. Otoh, we might well not and there may be nothing worth our attention.
 
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  • #46
TEFLing said:
Please do remember, we live in our own star's HZ...

and can only observe Oumuamua like objects when they basically buzz our planet... which is in our own HZ...

your words are true, and can be explained purely by current "selection bias"

Well that's the point; the chance of an interstellar object buzzing our planet should be so statistically rare, that if one does so it automatically becomes suspicious. Add in the light-curve, no outgassing and non-grav acceleration, and I think the odds favor the theory that this is artificial.
 
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  • #47
SLockhart said:
it automatically becomes suspicious.
No more suspicious than a suggestive pattern of tea leaves in a cup. If you really want anything to be true then it's not hard to find some apparent evidence - as long as you ignore what our understanding of statistics is telling you.
If we started to see droves of them, we would all give the idea some credence. Shame we can't just run after it and fetch it to Earth for an examination.
 
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  • #48
SLockhart said:
Well that's the point; the chance of an interstellar object buzzing our planet should be so statistically rare, that if one does so it automatically becomes suspicious. Add in the light-curve, no outgassing and non-grav acceleration, and I think the odds favor the theory that this is artificial.
https://www.businessinsider.com/har...-object-alien- spacecraft -solar-sail-2018-11

Rob Weryk, who first discovered Oumuamua in 2017.
Weryk: there's no reason to think Oumuamua is anything but a natural object.
So we think Oumuamua still has ice and the sublimating ice gives it a small tiny kick that gravity alone wouldn't account for, but that the dust it has is much larger than what comets typically have. And so we just don't see that from the ground.
 
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  • #49
TEFLing said:
Rob Weryk, who first discovered Oumuamua in 2017.
Weryk: there's no reason to think Oumuamua is anything but a natural object.
So we think Oumuamua still has ice and the sublimating ice gives it a small tiny kick that gravity alone wouldn't account for, but that the dust it has is much larger than what comets typically have. And so we just don't see that from the ground.

But there's just no example in the literature of a comet giving off 'larger dust' without also giving off gases and water. The scientists are inventing 'natural' reasons in order to avoid even mentioning the dreaded A word. Unfortunately the soonest we could possibly reach it is 2036 so it seems likely to remain a mystery.
 
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  • #50
SLockhart said:
The scientists are inventing 'natural' reasons in order to avoid even mentioning the dreaded A word.
If "scientists" went haring after every hint of aliens / magic / supernatural, you can be sure we would still be at the pre-enlightenment stage of progress in the subject.
You will laugh at the magic-based ideas that were around about Medicine just over a hundred years ago in the West (and still are in some parts of the developing world) If you cannot be objective and rational, there is no help for you, I'm afraid.
There are plenty of fanciful conversations to be had on the Internet about such things but not on PF.
 
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