Parallel Plate Waveguide Basic Functionality Issue

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the functionality of parallel plate waveguides and their behavior in relation to electric fields and voltage propagation. Participants explore the implications of oscillating voltage sources and the resulting electric field distribution within the waveguide, touching on concepts from circuit theory and wave propagation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the electric field distribution in a parallel plate waveguide, questioning why the E-field magnitude varies across the dielectric despite the bottom plate being grounded and the top plate connected to an oscillating voltage source.
  • Another participant questions whether the depicted system is a waveguide or a transmission line, suggesting a possible misunderstanding of the terminology.
  • A third participant clarifies that the system is a parallel plate transmission line and discusses the implications of voltage propagation time, using an analogy with the speed of light to illustrate that voltage does not instantaneously propagate along the conductor.
  • This participant argues that the "conductor = equipotential" approximation breaks down in long transmission lines, emphasizing the need to consider wave propagation and group velocity in such scenarios.
  • They also note that for conductors much shorter than one wavelength, the standard circuit theory approximation holds, but longer conductors require a more nuanced approach typical of microwave engineering.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial confusion regarding the nature of the system (waveguide vs. transmission line) and the implications of electric field behavior. Multiple viewpoints are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the fundamental understanding of the electric field distribution.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of circuit theory in the context of long transmission lines and the necessity of considering wave effects, indicating that assumptions about equipotentiality may not hold in all scenarios.

fred3142
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Hi,

I think I'm missing something with how a parallel plate waveguide works. In the picture I've shown below, there intensity of the E-field change depending on how far across the waveguide it is. While I know that this has to happen in order for anything to propagate, I don't quite understand why it is happening. If the top plate is connected to an oscillating voltage source, and the bottom plate is grounded, shouldn't the bottom plate always be at 0 and shouldn't the E-field of the whole top plate float up and down with the voltage source? I would've thought that at an instant in time, the E-filed would have the same magnitude everywhere in dielectric (as the bottom plate is constant 0V, and the whole top plate would float up and down together).

Why, at a particular instant in time, does the E-field magnitude change through the dielectric?



Thanks.
 

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Are you sure that picture is of a waveguide? It's labeled as a transmission line.
 
It's a parallel plate transmission line. Is that different to a parallel plate waveguide?
 
fred3142 said:
Hi,
I think I'm missing something with how a parallel plate waveguide works. In the picture I've shown below, there intensity of the E-field change depending on how far across the waveguide it is. While I know that this has to happen in order for anything to propagate, I don't quite understand why it is happening. If the top plate is connected to an oscillating voltage source, and the bottom plate is grounded, shouldn't the bottom plate always be at 0 and shouldn't the E-field of the whole top plate float up and down with the voltage source? I would've thought that at an instant in time, the E-filed would have the same magnitude everywhere in dielectric (as the bottom plate is constant 0V, and the whole top plate would float up and down together).
When you have the oscillating voltage source hooked up to one end of the parallel plate system, it takes time for the voltage to travel along the conductor. Think of the (absurd) case of a parallel plate waveguide that is long enough to stretch from here to the sun. You know that sunlight takes about 8 minutes to propagate from the sun to the earth; why should a voltage pulse take any less time, let alone exactly zero time? This would violate relativity theory.

The above argument is simply showing that in the limit of a very long transmission line that the "conductor = equipotential" approximation used in circuit theory must break down. The issue is that the voltage travels along the transmission line as a wave propagating at some velocity. The group velocity must be no greater than the speed of light in a vacuum. That is what the wave equation for the parallel plate guide is telling you.

Note that as long as a conductor is much shorter than one wavelength then the standard circuit theory "conductor = equipotential" approximation is good. Otherwise it isn't. Analyzing and designing circuits in the regime where the full wave nature of the signals must be taken into account is the domain of microwave engineering, but all EEs should learn about transmission lines at some point in their education.

Jason
 
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