Period of a physical pendulum with a pivot at its center

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the periods of different types of pendulums, specifically comparing a simple pendulum and two physical pendulums with the same length, L. The original poster is attempting to classify their periods in ascending order while grappling with the implications of the pivot point's location in relation to the center of mass.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster has calculated the periods for the first two pendulums and is exploring the implications of having the pivot at the center of mass for the third pendulum. They question the mathematical implications of having h equal to zero and how that affects the period. Other participants are probing the physical interpretation of an infinite period and its impact on the ranking of the periods.

Discussion Status

Participants are engaged in a productive dialogue, questioning the assumptions about the pivot point and the resulting calculations. There is an exploration of the implications of mathematical concepts in a physical context, particularly regarding the interpretation of very small denominators and their effect on period comparisons.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted concern about the mathematical division by zero when considering the pivot at the center of mass, which raises questions about the physical interpretation of such a scenario. The original poster is also navigating the constraints of the problem as defined by the homework statement.

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Homework Statement


The picture illustrates a simple pendulum and and two physical pendulums ,all having the same length ,L. Class their period in ascending order.

Homework Equations


T = 2π / ( I/mgh)
I = Icm + mh2

Icm=(ML2/12)

The Attempt at a Solution


I have found the period for first two objects :
T1 = 2π√(L/g)
T2 = 2π√(2L/3g)

The problem for me appears at the third system because h is defined as the distance between the center of mass of the rod and the pivot point. In the third situation, it seems to me that the pivot is at the center of mass , hence h=0 , but that would result in a division by 0 error.

I have tried cutting the rod in half so that L =L/2 and h = L/4 but after some algebra i end up with T3 = 2π√(L/3g) , which is smaller than T1

The solution to the problem is T3 > T1 > T2

Any help would be apreciated.
 

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Mihail Anghelici said:
The problem for me appears at the third system because h is defined as the distance between the center of mass of the rod and the pivot point. In the third situation, it seems to me that the pivot is at the center of mass , hence h=0 , but that would result in a division by 0 error.
And what do you get when you have a fraction the denominator of which is very small but not exactly zero? How does the period compare with the other two periods? Will the ranking of the periods change when the denominator is exactly zero?
 
kuruman said:
And what do you get when you have a fraction the denominator of which is very small but not exactly zero? How does the period compare with the other two periods? Will the ranking of the periods change when the denominator is exactly zero?
Not sure what you mean :/
 
Mihail Anghelici said:
Not sure what you mean :/
I mean: You said the period is ##T = 2π\sqrt{I/(mgh)}##. That's good. What is ##h## in case (iii)? You said ##h## is zero. That is correct, but you seem to be stuck at the mathematical impossibility of dividing by zero. Mathematically, ##\frac{1}{0}=\infty##. We are doing physics here where there are hardly any mathematical infinities. How do you physically interpret "infinite period"? Answer: Very long. OK, if T3 is just "very long" as opposed to "very, very, very long", how do you think that would affect its ranking against T1 and T2? In other words, if one quantity is infinite or nearly infinite, could it be smaller than two finite quantities?
 

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