Lingusitics Pet Peeves of your native language

[Orodruin]

Another peeve that is back on topic is its vs. it's. English is very inconsistent on these two words. We typically use 's to indicate ownership, as in "the dog's bone," but we write "the dog ate its bone."

OTOH, it's is shorthand for "it is."
I would guess that at least 1/3 of native English speakers get this wrong.

This is a significant portion of the illness of not knowing when to use ’ correctly. Other examples include your vs you’re and their vs they’re.

 

[symbolipoint]

Another peeve that is back on topic is its vs. it's. English is very inconsistent on these two words. We typically use 's to indicate ownership, as in "the dog's bone," but we write "the dog ate its bone."

OTOH, it's is shorthand for "it is."
I would guess that at least 1/3 of native English speakers get this wrong.

"its" is third-person to say "of it". This whatever it is is taken as genderless in English.
"his" or "her" is third person but made for either of the two genders, "of him" or "of her".
NO apostrophe needed for these. Apostrophe EXCLUDED.

"it's" is the contraction for "it is", and here, the missing "i" is replaced with the apostrophe.

 

[pinball1970]

This is a significant portion of the illness of not knowing when to use ’ correctly. Other examples include your vs you’re and their vs they’re.

We were taught that some European languages ask, 'how do you go?' rather than, 'how you are?'
'Ca va?' Springs to mind for French
I googled a few others and they exist but I do not know how common they are used in spoken language or what is considered proper.

 

[pinball1970]

This is a significant portion of the illness of not knowing when to use ’ correctly. Other examples include your vs you’re and their vs they’re.

This is absolutely a young verses old issue.

Their and there and too and to.

On the apostrophe issue, I believe this is ok as long as you are quoting someone but not ok as part of formal written language.

 

[fresh_42]

I googled a few others and they exist but I do not know how common they are used in spoken language or what is considered proper.

In German as well. To be fine is "gut gehen" = going well.

On the apostrophe issue, I believe this is ok as long as you are quoting someone but not ok as part of formal written language.

There is another difficulty hidden.

If we want to speak about a certain word or phrase within a normal sentence, i.e. if the sentence is on the meta level, what is the correct version, especially in contrast to an emphasis of a certain word:

• I never confused "two, too, to" at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without "translating" it first, those sometimes slip through.
• I never confused 'two, too, to' at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without translating it first, those sometimes slip through.
• I never confused two, too, to at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without 'translating' it first, those sometimes slip through.

or whatever combination of these. When to use 'one apostrophe', a "quotation mark", or simply italic or bold?

 

[symbolipoint]

In German as well. To be fine is "gut gehen" = going well.

There is another difficulty hidden.

If we want to speak about a certain word or phrase within a normal sentence, i.e. if the sentence is on the meta level, what is the correct version, especially in contrast to an emphasis of a certain word:

• I never confused "two, too, to" at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without "translating" it first, those sometimes slip through.
• I never confused 'two, too, to' at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without translating it first, those sometimes slip through.
• I never confused two, too, to at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without 'translating' it first, those sometimes slip through.

or whatever combination of these. When to use 'one apostrophe', a "quotation mark", or simply italic or bold?

Nice. Check a style manual, and make your best judgement.

 

[skeptic2]

A Russian friend asked me, "Why do people say, 'The alarm went off' when they mean the alarm went on."

A Mexican father told me about one time he was boarding a boat with his son through a low doorway with a sign that said, "Watch your head" and his son asked him, "Daddy, how can I watch my head?"

One difference between English and other languages including Spanish is when someone is called, in English they answer, "I'm coming." and in some other languages they say, "I'm going."

 

[Mark44]

I do not know any language other than English where "How are you?" is a normal inquisitive greeting; more common is "How is it?"

Spanish: "Como estás?" or "Como está usted?"
Both mean literally "How are you?"
Portuguese: "Como está?" or "Como vai". The first is "how are you," and the second is, "How does it go?"

 

[pinball1970]

In German as well. To be fine is "gut gehen" = going well.

There is another difficulty hidden.

If we want to speak about a certain word or phrase within a normal sentence, i.e. if the sentence is on the meta level, what is the correct version, especially in contrast to an emphasis of a certain word:

• I never confused "two, too, to" at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without "translating" it first, those sometimes slip through.
• I never confused 'two, too, to' at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without translating it first, those sometimes slip through.
• I never confused two, too, to at school,
  but now that I regularly write in English without 'translating' it first, those sometimes slip through.

or whatever combination of these. When to use 'one apostrophe', a "quotation mark", or simply italic or bold?

I would use the third option without quotation marks on the 'translating.'

 

[fresh_42]

O.k. it's not as bad in German as it is in French, who say four times twenty ten seven, but we say seven and eighty instead of eighty seven. This is a notorious hurdle for foreigners. Now where do foreigners use a lot of numbers? Right, at the Chinese restaurant. I just listened to a dialogue where the customer had ordered 45 (Thai Curry) at the phone and came to fetch his meal. Now imagine, if the waiter desperately tries to figure out the difference between 45 and 54 while the customer confuses it, too. It's been hilarious!

 

[Mark44]

O.k. it's not as bad in German as it is in French, who say four times twenty ten seven

Belgian French (or Walloon) is similar to French used in France, but there are some differences in the words for numbers. Unlike French, with soixante-dix (sixty - ten), quatre-vingts (four twenties), and quatre-vingt-dix (four twenty ten), Belgian French has its own words for seventy -- septante, eighty -- octante, and ninety -- nonante.

According to this web page, https://e2f.com/5211/, the Romans were using a decimal system, but the Celts were using a vigesimal system based on multiples of 20. After the Romans conquered Gaul, the Roman system won out for the numbers up to 60, but the vigesimal system remained for numbers between 60 and 100.

but we say seven and eighty instead of eighty seven.

There are vestiges of numbering like this in English, as in the nursery rhyme "Sing a song of Sixpence."
"Sing a song of sixpence,
A pocket full of rye,
Four and twenty blackbirds,
Baked in a pie. "

 

[PeroK]

There are vestiges of numbering like this in English, as in the nursery rhyme "Sing a song of Sixpence."
"Sing a song of sixpence,
A pocket full of rye,
Four and twenty blackbirds,
Baked in a pie. "

And, for example:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/52706/when-i-was-one-and-twenty-56d2316642304

 

[fresh_42]

By the way: I have read a not so bad translation of "le clou": kicker.

 

[fresh_42]

 

[OCR]

So you think English is easy?

Lol. . . don't you remember ??

The Story of Esaw Wood

.

 

[pinball1970]

View attachment 244194

Yep, our beautiful, contradictory, oxymoronic, idiosyncratic, wonderfully complex and at times absurd language. If I was anything but an English speaker, I would have refused to have wasted my time learning this ridiculous language.

 

[fresh_42]

Yep, our beautiful, contradictory, oxymoronic, idiosyncratic, wonderfully complex and at times absurd language. If I was anything but an English speaker, I would have refused to have wasted my time learning this ridiculous language.

Well, it is so close to German that it was actually the easiest one to learn!

 

[Orodruin]

Well, it is so close to German that it was actually the easiest one to learn!

What about Dutch or Bavarian?

 

[fresh_42]

What about Dutch or Bavarian?

Dutch has difficult sounds produced in the throat. Would have been easier some centuries ago. But understanding it isn't too hard. And as by far most dutch people speak English quite well, there isn't a need.

Bavarian is easy, but not worth it. I once tried Hungarian and managed the pronunciation pretty well, but was too lazy to learn the words. It has an interesting grammar as well, as all grammatical information is coded in appendices.

 

[Orodruin]

Dutch has difficult sounds produced in the throat. Would have been easier some centuries ago. But understanding it isn't too hard. And as by far most dutch people speak English quite well, there isn't a need.

Bavarian is easy, but not worth it. I once tried Hungarian and managed the pronunciation pretty well, but was too lazy to learn the words. It has an interesting grammar as well, as all grammatical information is coded in appendices.

So what about Swedish? It is typically quite easy for Germans.

 

[fresh_42]

So what about Swedish? It is typically quite easy for Germans.

Well, I guess we have a history and your ancestors weren't the pleasant kind. And you already have Mrs. Sommerlad who learned to speak Swedish. Does she count?

 

[Janus]

https://www.puhutaan-suomea.net/kuusi-palaa-9-meanings-in-finnish/

 

[pinball1970]

Well, it is so close to German that it was actually the easiest one to learn!

Which is why German made sense whereas French was tricky when I studied as a kid

 

[ftr]

As a non Latin based native language, I find English to be the easiest among Latin based languages. I lived in the US for a while and in two months I could yap in all accents from California to New York. I thought that will prepare me to learn German, how wrong I was. Some of their words took half a day to finish.

 

[Klystron]

If ya'll (there's a necessary addition to english, a plural form of "you", and no I'm not from the south) can find it, Robert MacNeil (of the old MacNeil-Lehrer Report fame) did a series on the history of English that was really good.

When I returned to college after service, we were told to select a news service to maintain knowledge of current events. I chose MacNeil-Lehrer report, nowPBS NewsHour , that I watch and read to this day.

Jim Lehrer, a fine novelist -- his comparison of baseball player position as a paradigm for character traits remains a classic -- excellent news anchor and debate moderator, remains a public voice for veterans. Robin Macneil posseses one of the great English language voices outside theatre (IMO). We can all improve spoken English listening to Macneil's diction, phrasing and word choice.

Viewing old PBS Newshour coverage could provide dual benefits: exposure to fine spoken English describing unbiased, now historical, events.

 

[256bits]

Which is why German made sense whereas French was tricky when I studied as a kid

Same thing here. About the French. I don't know.
Greek for some reason when I dabbled in it seemed to make much more sense for me.

 

[pinball1970]

Same thing here. About the French. I don't know.
Greek for some reason when I dabbled in it seemed to make much more sense for me.

Greek!? I only know about the letters from maths/physics but using them to form words? I think that would be tricky.
Lots of Greek and Latin in biology and those languages form many stems in English but these are written obviously using our alphabet so it does not look like...Greek!
I automatically think Canadians would have a handle on French given the demographic but I suppose that would be like you expecting me to speak Cornish Celt or Welsh?
I know a lot of French but my pronunciation is hideous coupled with my fairly broad Mancunian accent.
French is a beautiful spoken lyrical language like Italian Spanish and Portuguese, in the hands of a Mancunian not so good. Like playing the viola with boxing gloves.

 

[fresh_42]

Greek!? I only know about the letters from maths/physics but using them to form words? I think that would be tricky.
Lots of Greek and Latin in biology and those languages form many stems in English but these are written obviously using our alphabet so it does not look like...Greek!
I automatically think Canadians would have a handle on French given the demographic but I suppose that would be like you expecting me to speak Cornish Celt or Welsh?
I know a lot of French but my pronunciation is hideous coupled with my fairly broad Mancunian accent.
French is a beautiful spoken lyrical language like Italian Spanish and Portuguese, in the hands of a Mancunian not so good. Like playing the viola with boxing gloves.

Nid ydych yn siarad galwyn?

 

[pinball1970]

Nid ydych yn siarad galwyn?

Dim ond ychydig

 

[Mark44]

I automatically think Canadians would have a handle on French given the demographic but I suppose that would be like you expecting me to speak Cornish Celt or Welsh?

This would definitely be true of most Canadians in Quebec, but not necessarily true for Canadians in other provinces, especially out west, such as in Alberta of British Columbia. Granted, Canada is officially bilingual in English and French, so non-French-speakers would at least see many French words along with their English equivalents.

Back to pet peeves of English. Many words in English have their origins in other languages - French, Latin, Greek, German, Hindi, and many other sources. One word in English is sort of a hybrid -- rhododendron, meaning "red tree." The rhodo part (red) comes from Greek, while the dendron part (tree) is derived from Latin.