Ph diagram for a vapour compression cycle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the interpretation of a pressure-enthalpy (ph) diagram for a vapor compression cycle, focusing on the placement of points on the diagram and the significance of isentropic processes. Participants explore concepts related to superheating, irreversibility, and the distinction between ideal and practical cycles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the placement of point 1 on the ph diagram, suggesting it may relate to the presence of superheating.
  • Another participant confirms that the presence of superheating typically results in point 1 being to the right of the saturated vapor line.
  • There is a discussion about the significance of point 2' and whether line 1-2 is isentropic or not, with some suggesting that line 1-2' is isentropic while line 1-2 may not be.
  • One participant notes that in theoretical cycles, points 2 and 2' coincide, but in practical applications, irreversibility causes the actual enthalpy after compression to be higher.
  • Another participant agrees that if line 1-2' is isentropic, then line 1-2 is not, indicating a distinction between ideal and practical cycles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between superheating and the placement of points on the ph diagram, but there is ongoing discussion regarding the implications of isentropic processes and the differences between ideal and practical cycles. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact significance of point 2' and the conditions under which lines are considered isentropic.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the ideal versus practical cycles, as well as the definitions of isentropic processes in the context of the vapor compression cycle.

influx
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations



N/A

The Attempt at a Solution



I am trying to understand the above ph diagram (for a vapour compression cycle), In some examples, point 1 is situated as above in the image (i.e. to the right of the saturated vapour line) and at other times it's situated exactly where I drew the purple arrow (i.e. on the saturated vapour line). I am guessing this has something to do with whether there is superheat or not but it would be great if someone could explain.

Also, in some examples there is no point 2' (only points are 1,2,3 and 4). What is the exact significance of 2'?

In examples with no point 2', we are told that line 1-2 is isentropic but in the above example where there is a 2', we are told that line 1-2' is isentropic. Does this mean that in the above, line 1-2 is not isentropic? Why/why not?

Thanks a lot
 
Last edited:
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influx said:
I am guessing this has something to do with whether there is superheating or not
Your guess is correct. Usually the utility fluid is chosen to have a low boiling temperature wrt the stuff to be cooled, so (given enough time for the heat exchange) there will be superheating.

For the analysis of reversible (theoretical, ideal) cycles points 2 and 2' coincide. In practice that's not useful (the compression would take forever). So in your picture there is some irreversibility and the actual enthalpy after compression is higher than what you would get with isentropic compression.

[edit] Your picture appears in Cengel 4th ed, but it seems to have gone in the 7th. It is sheet #18 here (with explanation and a worked out example on the preceding pages)
 
Last edited:
BvU said:
Your guess is correct. Usually the utility fluid is chosen to have a low boiling temperature wrt the stuff to be cooled, so (given enough time for the heat exchange) there will be superheating.

For the analysis of reversible (theoretical, ideal) cycles points 2 and 2' coincide. In practice that's not useful (the compression would take forever). So in your picture there is some irreversibility and the actual enthalpy after compression is higher than what you would get with isentropic compression.

[edit] Your picture appears in Cengel 4th ed, but it seems to have gone in the 7th. It is sheet #18 here (with explanation and a worked out example on the preceding pages)

Thanks for your reply.

So in my example, I am assuming that since line 1-2' is isentropic, line 1-2 isn't? Meaning that if the compression is said to be isentropic then it refers to an ideal cycle?
 
Yes on the first count. And if an ideal cycle is supposed to be reversible, then yes on two counts.
 

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