Photoeffect and compton scattering

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between the photoelectric effect (PE) and Compton scattering (CE), particularly regarding the types of electrons involved in each process and the energy dynamics of photon interactions with matter. Participants explore the underlying mechanisms and conditions that lead to the ejection of electrons from atoms in both phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in the photoelectric effect, photons must encounter electrons that are closer to the atom due to their higher binding energy, while in Compton scattering, the photon has too much energy and momentum to fully absorb and eject tightly bound electrons.
  • Another participant questions the reasoning behind the energy and momentum dynamics in Compton scattering, seeking clarification on why outer shell electrons are involved rather than inner shell electrons.
  • A participant expresses confusion over the differences between PE and CE, suggesting that both processes involve photons interacting with matter but may not be fundamentally different.
  • It is noted that the probability of photon interaction via the photoelectric effect decreases when the photon energy is far beyond the absorption edges of the target material.
  • One participant proposes that tightly bound targets are more likely to interact with low-energy photons, while loosely bound targets interact more with high-energy photons, although this is contested.
  • Another participant clarifies that in Compton scattering, the interaction is more about the photon energy being off-resonance from the absorption edges, rather than simply the binding energy of the electrons.
  • A later reply explains that in Compton scattering, when tightly bound electrons scatter x-rays, the collision is considered to involve the whole atom, leading to a negligible Compton shift due to the mass difference between the electron and the atom.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the distinctions between the photoelectric effect and Compton scattering. There is no consensus on the exact mechanisms or the implications of photon energy and electron binding in these processes, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the interactions and the need for careful consideration of energy levels, binding energies, and the nature of photon interactions with different types of electrons. Some assumptions about the nature of the interactions remain unresolved.

vabamyyr
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I was asked question: "Why in case of photoelectric effect electrons closer to the atom are ejected and in case of Compton effect electrons in the outer shells are emitted from nucleus by x-ray photon?".

Well I know that this topic is very deep and one has to carefully select words to explain this but I think that in case of CE photon has far too much energy and momentum to eject outer shell electron which is not too tightly bound to the atom. And in case of PE the photon is absorbed completely and for that to happen it has to encounter electron which is closer to the atom and therefore has higher binding energy.

Am I thinking wrong? If so then smarter opinions are welcome.
 
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vabamyyr said:
in case of CE photon has far too much energy and momentum to eject outer shell electron

I don't understand this. Please explain
 
sorry, i meant in case of CE it is not possible for photon to disappear (absorbed by electron) so it only gives some part of energy and momentum to electron which is sufficient to eject it from the atom.
 
The more I read this forum, especially topics concerning CE and PE I'm getting more and more confused.
 
vabamyyr said:
The more I read this forum, especially topics concerning CE and PE I'm getting more and more confused.

Well, I tend to oversimplify things intentionally because I think there is a natural human tendency to obfuscate.

That said, I would suggest that the photoelectric effect and compton scattering are the same thing - photons hitting matter.
 
yes, but still I don't understand why Compton effect involves free or loosely bound electrons and not electrons from inner shells. Can u enlighten me on that one?
 
When one does compton scattering the photon energy is far beyond the absorption edges of whatever elements you're shooting the photons at. The probability that the photon interacts with atom via the photoelectric effect is much lower then.
 
Do I understand this? If the target is tightly bound, then and interaction is more likely with a low energy photon. If the target is loosely bound, then the interaction is more likely with a high energy photon.
 
Not really. It's more about how far off resonance the photon energy is from the absorption edges. I've seen a nice schematic picture of the interaction probabilities vs energy in the x-ray regime, I'll try to find it for you. You could also look up the Kramers-Heiseberg formula which describes the physics involved well.

edit: the pic seems to be very evasive. too evasive considering that I've seen it atleast a gazillion times.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
>>interaction probabilities vs energy in the x-ray regime <<

How about this: High energy photons are more like little bullets and interact more rarely, but low energy photons are more spread out and therefore more likely to interact?
 
  • #11
in case of compton effect,elastic collision between x-ray photon and target electron takes place. The electron close to the nucleus of the atoms are tightly bound. When such bound electrons scatter x-rays,the collision is considered to be taking place between the photon and the whole atom. the whole atom recoils instead of the individual electron.The compton shift in this case is given by same expression except that the mass of electron is replaced with that of the atom. The mass of the atom is about ten thousand times greater than mass of electron. Therefore the compton shift is so small as to be unobservable. this process gives unmodified line and we say that compton effect involves outer electrons only.
 

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