Physics proof for traffic ticket

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter 12markkram34
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Physics Proof
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics proof presented by a scientist to argue against a traffic ticket for allegedly running a stop sign. Participants explore the mathematical and conceptual aspects of the proof, particularly focusing on the calculations related to angular speed and the positioning of vehicles during the incident.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the proof's argument that angular speed peaks near the stop sign, suggesting that the observed speed is zero when another car obstructs the officer's view.
  • Concerns are raised about the proof's assumptions, particularly regarding the immediate transition from deceleration to acceleration, which some find unrealistic.
  • Multiple participants express confusion over the mathematical treatment of distances in the proof, specifically why certain lengths are added or subtracted in the calculations of obstruction.
  • Another participant clarifies the definitions of partial and full obstruction in the context of the proof, providing a breakdown of the distances involved based on the positions of the cars.
  • There is a shared sentiment that the proof lacks clarity in specifying the positions of the obstructing car at various times, which may contribute to misunderstandings.
  • Some participants note that the proof employs small angle approximations and simplifying assumptions, potentially aimed at a less technical audience.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the proof or the clarity of its mathematical arguments. There are multiple competing interpretations of the calculations and assumptions made in the proof.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the proof's definitions and assumptions regarding the positions of the cars, as well as unresolved mathematical steps in the calculations of obstruction.

12markkram34
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
So I read about a scientist who wrote a physics proof to prove that he did not run a stop sign, basing his argument on the fact that angular speed of a car moving near a stop sign )as observed by a distant perpendicular observer) peaks shortly before and after the stop, where the observed angular speed is zero. During that brief moment that the speed is zero, another car was blocking the sight of the officer. It's probably easier to understand if you read the actual proof.

The proof is here: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.0162v1.pdf

So I understand everything up to part IV, where he calculates the times that obstruction starts and ends. What I don't understand is why he added the two lengths together for one and subtracted them for the other. I think the problem is that he doesn't really specify where the obstructing car is at a particular time, though it could just be me because I'm not really good at mechanics.

Of course, his overall argument is pretty unrealistic since it contends that acceleration starts immediately after deceleration, but I still want to understand the basis of the "proof."

EDIT: I also see an issue with how he defines where his car is. From his part about speed, we can assume that he is defining x as the distance from his front bumper to the stop line. If that is the case, then it would not make sense to calculate when his front bumper is the sum of the lengths away from the line, since if partial obstruction began when he was at that point (that would make the front bumper of the obstructing car be l1 away from the line), his car would be exposed at the stop line (since the obstructing car does not reach that far). Could it be just that that part of his proof is totally bad?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Bumping since it's been two days without a response.
 
12markkram34 said:
What I don't understand is why he added the two lengths together for one and subtracted them for the other.
That makes sense for calculating total and partial obstruction. But I didn't go through his math.
 
12markkram34 said:
What I don't understand is why he added the two lengths together for one and subtracted them for the other.

His definition of the distance of partial obstruction spans when the front bumper is the same distance from the stop sign as the other car's rear bumper, to when his rear bumper is the same distance as the other car's front bumper.

Assuming the other car is stationary at the stop sign, this is a distance from when the front bumper is at [itex]x_1 = -l_2[/itex] (front bumper is even with the other car's rear bumper) to when the front bumper is at [itex]x_2 = +l_1[/itex] (rear bumper is even with the other car's front bumper). Using [itex]\Delta{x} = x_2 - x_1[/itex] gives [itex]x_p = (+l_1) - (-l_2) = l_1 + l_2[/itex].

His definition of full obstuction occurs when the rear bumper has passed the other car's rear bumper, yet his front bumper has not passed the other car's front bumper. So at the point when his rear bumper is even with the other car's rear bumper, his front bumper has a distance of [itex]l_2 - l_1[/itex] to travel before it goes past.

12markkram34 said:
I think the problem is that he doesn't really specify where the obstructing car is at a particular time, though it could just be me because I'm not really good at mechanics.

He is using small angle approximations. Actually, he uses a lot of simplifying assumptions, approximations, and worst case scenarios, probably for an audience which does not have a thorough background in physics.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 66 ·
3
Replies
66
Views
6K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
6K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 45 ·
2
Replies
45
Views
4K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K