PID Control Equation in Z-Domain

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation and simplification of the PID control equation in the Z-domain, focusing on the transition from the s-domain representation to the Z-domain. Participants explore algebraic manipulations and the implications of different constants in the equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation from first principles, starting with the Laplace transfer function of a PID controller and attempting to simplify it for the Z-domain.
  • Another participant points out the difference in constants between the continuous and discrete forms, indicating that the constants in the equations are not the same.
  • A subsequent reply clarifies that the participant initially missed the distinction of the primes in the constants, leading to a misunderstanding in the simplification process.
  • Further contributions detail the algebraic steps taken to express the PID controller in the Z-domain, including the collection of terms and the identification of coefficients in a quadratic expression.
  • One participant notes that while working towards the exact formulas for the coefficients, the original source was more focused on the form of the expression rather than the specifics of the coefficients.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the algebraic steps involved in the simplification process. There is no consensus on the clarity of the derivation, as some participants find the transition straightforward while others encounter confusion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include potential missing assumptions about the constants and the specific algebraic steps that may not have been fully detailed. The discussion does not resolve the exact relationships between the constants in the continuous and discrete forms.

bsodmike
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How does one go from the simple substitution to the end result?

[tex]\dfrac{U(z)}{E(z)}=K'_P+\dfrac{K'_ITz}{z-1}+\dfrac{K'_D(z-1)}{Tz}=\dfrac{K_Pz^2+K_Iz+K_D}{z(z-1)}[/tex]

Found the above simplification in http://www.nt.ntnu.no/users/skoge/prost/proceedings/acc04/Papers/0008_WeA02.5.pdf" in Eq 23-24.

Edit: Here's my attempt going back to first principles. In the s-domain, the laplace TF of a PID controller can be written as

[tex]G(s) = K_P+\dfrac{K_I}{s}+K_Ds[/tex]

If I were to attempt to simplify the above by considering a = Kp, b = Ki, c = Kd

[tex]a+\dfrac{b}{s}+cs = a + \dfrac{b+cs^2}{s}=\dfrac{as+b+cs^2}{s}[/tex]

Translate to the Z-domain by substituting

[tex]s = \dfrac{z-1}{Tz}[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{a\left(\dfrac{z-1}{Tz}\right)+b+c\left(\dfrac{z-1}{Tz}\right)^2}{\dfrac{z- 1}{Tz}}=\dfrac{a\left(\dfrac{z-1}{Tz}\right)+b+c\left(\dfrac{z^2-2z+1}{T^2z^2}\right)}{\dfrac{z-1}{Tz}}[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{a\left(\dfrac{z-1}{Tz}\right)+b+c\left(\dfrac{z^2-2z+1}{T^2z^2}\right)}{\dfrac{z-1}{Tz}} = \dfrac{a(z-1)+b(Tz)+c(\dfrac{z^2-2z+1}{Tz})}{z-1}[/tex]

Multiplying through top and bottom by 'z'

[tex]z \times \dfrac{a(z-1)+b(Tz)+c(\dfrac{z^2-2z+1}{Tz})}{z-1}=\dfrac{az(z-1)+b(Tz^2)+c(\dfrac{z^2-2z+1}{T})}{z(z-1)}[/tex]
 
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I'm not sure what you are having problems with. Getting from (22) to (23) to (24) is just algebra.

Did you miss the fact that the constants in (23) and (24) are different? The continuous ones are K'p etc, the discrete ones are Kp etc.
 
Thanks Aleph.

Figured this much out; missed out on the primes...

Kp + (Ki T z)/(z - 1) + (Kd (z - 1))/(T z) = (Kd - 2*Kd*z - Kp*T*z + Kd*z^2 + Kp*T*z^2 + Ki*T^2*z^2)/(T*(-1 + z)*z)

Collecting z's gives: Kd/T + ((-2 Kd - Kp T) z)/T + ((Kd + Kp T + Ki T^2) z^2)/T Therefore, K_D = K_D'/T; K_I = -(K_P'T + 2 K_D')/T; K_P = (K_D' + K_P' T + K_I' T^2)/T
 
Last edited:
The continuous controller response function is a + b/s + cs

Then he substitutes s =(z-1)/(Tz)

and gets a + bTz/(z-1) + c(z-1)/(Tz)

Putting everything over z(z-1) gives

[ az(z-1) + bTz^2 + (c/T)(z-1)^2 ] / z(z-1)

The numerator is a quadratic expression in z, so this is of the form

[ Az^2 + Bz + C ] / z(z-1)

for some constants A B and C.

You were heading towards working out the exact formulas for A B and C in terms of a b c and T, but he doesn't bother to do that. He is only interested in the form of the expression, not the exact details.
 
AlephZero said:
You were heading towards working out the exact formulas for A B and C in terms of a b c and T, but he doesn't bother to do that. He is only interested in the form of the expression, not the exact details.

Indeed! Much appreciated.

Cheers, Mike.
 

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