Poincaré disk: metric and isometric action

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Poincaré disk as a symmetric space, focusing on its metric and the isometric action of the group SU(1, 1). Participants explore the notation of the metric, compare different forms of the Riemannian metric, and seek to understand the implications of the group action on the disk.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the notation "ds²" and seeks to convert it into a more familiar form, questioning the equivalence of two metrics defined on the Poincaré disk.
  • Another participant suggests that the two metrics are equivalent up to numerical factors, specifically relating ds² to g_z.
  • There is a discussion on the isometric action of the group SU(1, 1) on the Poincaré disk, with a participant attempting to compute the derivative A_*x for this action.
  • One participant attempts to calculate A_*x using a specific curve and expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their approach.
  • Another participant points out that the coordinates are complex and suggests that the metric might need to account for this in the computation.
  • One participant considers whether it would be possible to translate the discussion into real coordinates and whether this would result in a loss of mathematical insight.
  • There is mention of the relationship between SL(2, R) and SU(1, 1), and the potential simplifications that could arise from using real coordinates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express uncertainty and seek clarification on various points, indicating that multiple competing views remain regarding the metrics and the computations involved. No consensus is reached on the best approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of complex manifolds and the notation used, as well as the challenges in simplifying the expressions involved in the computations.

Sajet
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Hi!

I'm trying to give a few examples of symmetric manifolds. In the article "Introduction to Symmetric Spaces and Their Compactification" Lizhen Ji mentions the Poincaré disk as a symmetric space in the following way:

D = \{z \in \mathbb C | |z| < 1\}

with metric

ds^2 = \frac{|dz|^2}{(1-|z|^2)^2}.

First question: I don't know this "ds²" notation and I wasn't able to figure out how to convert it into the more familiar notation g_p(x, y) = .... Is this possible? Last semester we defined a Riemannian metric on the Poincaré disk as follows:

g_p(x, y) = \frac{4\langle x, y\rangle}{(1-||p||^2)^2}

Is this the same metric?

The second thing:

Ji says that the group

SU(1, 1) = \{\begin{pmatrix}a && b \\ \bar b && \bar a\end{pmatrix} | a, b \in \mathbb C, |a|^2-|b|^2 = 1\}

acts isometrically and transitively on D by setting

\begin{pmatrix}a && b \\ \bar b && \bar a\end{pmatrix}z = \frac{az+b}{\bar b z+\bar a}

But he doesn't prove this and instead says "This follows by a direct computation".

I would like to do this computation, and as I see this I need to show:

g_{Az}(A_*x, A_*y) = g_z(x, y)

But then again I would need to know the metric explicitly and also unfortunately I couldn't figure out how to compute the derivative A_*x for this group action :(

I would be very grateful for some help with this. Thank you in advance!
 
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Sajet said:
with metric

ds^2 = \frac{|dz|^2}{(1-|z|^2)^2}.

First question: I don't know this "ds²" notation and I wasn't able to figure out how to convert it into the more familiar notation g_p(x, y) = .... Is this possible? Last semester we defined a Riemannian metric on the Poincaré disk as follows:

g_p(x, y) = \frac{4\langle x, y\rangle}{(1-||p||^2)^2}

Is this the same metric?

You should be able to show that, up to numerical factors, these are equivalent. Namely,

$$ds^2 = \frac{1}{4} g_z(dz,d\bar{z}).$$

The second thing:

Ji says that the group

SU(1, 1) = \{\begin{pmatrix}a && b \\ \bar b && \bar a\end{pmatrix} | a, b \in \mathbb C, |a|^2-|b|^2 = 1\}

acts isometrically and transitively on D by setting

\begin{pmatrix}a && b \\ \bar b && \bar a\end{pmatrix}z = \frac{az+b}{\bar b z+\bar a}

But he doesn't prove this and instead says "This follows by a direct computation".

I would like to do this computation, and as I see this I need to show:

g_{Az}(A_*x, A_*y) = g_z(x, y)

But then again I would need to know the metric explicitly and also unfortunately I couldn't figure out how to compute the derivative A_*x for this group action :(

I would be very grateful for some help with this. Thank you in advance!

If you verify that

$$ dz' = \frac{dz}{(\bar{b} z + \bar{a})^2}$$

(which is presumably related to your ##A_*##) and

$$ 1-|z'|^2 = \frac{1-|z|^2}{|\bar{b} z + \bar{a}|^2},$$

you can show that the metric tensor is invariant.
 
Thank you for your response. I'm sorry but I still couldn't figure this ds² notation out and I was hoping I could somehow get around it by using the other notation. So I tried the following:

g_p(x, y) = \frac{<x,y>}{(1-|p|^2)^2}

which would be identical to Ji's definition of ds² according to what you said at the beginning.

I tried to calculate A_*x using:

\frac{d}{dt}_{t=0} \frac{a\gamma(t)+b}{\bar b\gamma(t)+\bar a}

for some curve \gamma(0) = p, \dot\gamma(0) = x which gave me

\frac{|a|^2+|b|^2}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2}x = \frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2} x (since |a|²-|b|² = 1)

(Is this what the bottom of your post is referring to by dz'?)

Assuming this is correct, I would have to show:

\frac{<x, y>}{(1-|p|^2)^2} = g_{Ap}(A_*x, A*y) = \frac{<\frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2}x, \frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2}y>}{(1-|\frac{ap+b}{\bar b p+\bar a}|^2)^2}= (\frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2})^2\frac{<x, y>}{(1-|\frac{ap+b}{\bar b p+\bar a}|^2)^2}

But I don't get any further from here since I don't how to simplify |\frac{ap+b}{\bar b p+\bar a}|^2.

Is this even correct up to this point?
 
Sajet said:
Thank you for your response. I'm sorry but I still couldn't figure this ds² notation out and I was hoping I could somehow get around it by using the other notation. So I tried the following:

g_p(x, y) = \frac{<x,y>}{(1-|p|^2)^2}

which would be identical to Ji's definition of ds² according to what you said at the beginning.

I tried to calculate A_*x using:

\frac{d}{dt}_{t=0} \frac{a\gamma(t)+b}{\bar b\gamma(t)+\bar a}

for some curve \gamma(0) = p, \dot\gamma(0) = x which gave me

\frac{|a|^2+|b|^2}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2}x = \frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2} x (since |a|²-|b|² = 1)

(Is this what the bottom of your post is referring to by dz'?)

I find

\frac{d}{dt}_{t=0} \frac{a\gamma(t)+b}{\bar b\gamma(t)+\bar a}=\frac{|a|^2-|b|^2}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2}x

This is essentially the same computation as for ##dz'##.

Assuming this is correct, I would have to show:

\frac{<x, y>}{(1-|p|^2)^2} = g_{Ap}(A_*x, A*y) = \frac{<\frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2}x, \frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2}y>}{(1-|\frac{ap+b}{\bar b p+\bar a}|^2)^2}= (\frac{2|a|^2-1}{(\bar b p+\bar a)^2})^2\frac{<x, y>}{(1-|\frac{ap+b}{\bar b p+\bar a}|^2)^2}

But I don't get any further from here since I don't how to simplify |\frac{ap+b}{\bar b p+\bar a}|^2.

Is this even correct up to this point?

You haven't used the fact that the coordinates are complex, so presumably you should have ##(A_*x, A_*\bar{y})## or maybe ##(A_*x, A_*\bar{y})+(A_*\bar{x}, A_*y)## in the metric. With the appropriate expression, the factors cancel as in the computation I mentioned.
 
Last edited:
Thanks. You're right, I made a mistake in the first part. |a|² - |b|², and thus 1, is correct.

With regard to the second part, I'm not really used to complex manifolds... I thought, x and y were real since they are in the tangent space. Would it be possible to transfer the entire thing to real coordinates? Meaning

D = \{p \in \mathbb R^2 | |p| < 1\}

and then take SO(1, +) (?) as the isometry group? Or would some mathematical insight be lost when doing that?

Or maybe I should just stick to a simpler example...
 
Sajet said:
Thanks. You're right, I made a mistake in the first part. |a|² - |b|², and thus 1, is correct.

With regard to the second part, I'm not really used to complex manifolds... I thought, x and y were real since they are in the tangent space. Would it be possible to transfer the entire thing to real coordinates? Meaning

D = \{p \in \mathbb R^2 | |p| < 1\}

and then take SO(1, +) (?) as the isometry group? Or would some mathematical insight be lost when doing that?

Or maybe I should just stick to a simpler example...

In the real case, we have ##SL(2,\mathbb{R})##, which is isomorphic to ##SU(1,1)## and ##SO^+(1,2)##. However, the ##SO^+(1,2)## actually acts on coordinates ##(x_0,x_1,x_2)## which are constrained to lie on the hyperboloid

$$x_0^2 - x_1^2 -x_2^2=1$$

with ##x_0>0##.

I'm sure once the details are worked out, everything would fit together. But it's much simpler to use the complex coordinate.
 
Thanks for all your help! I haven't figured it out completely but I get the basic idea now and I'm sure I'll get there soon.
 

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