Polyatomic quantum harmonic oscillator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the determination of the Hamiltonian for a polyatomic quantum harmonic oscillator, with a focus on the change of coordinates using normal modes. Participants explore the complexities of generalizing the Hamiltonian from a one-dimensional to a polyatomic system and the conditions under which the Hamiltonian can be made separable.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks detailed explanations on determining the Hamiltonian of a polyatomic quantum oscillator, noting a lack of resources beyond diatomic systems.
  • Another participant provides a general form of the Hamiltonian for a polyatomic system, highlighting the dependence on the number of particles and their interactions.
  • A subsequent reply suggests that the Hamiltonian can be made separable under specific conditions, such as equal masses and symmetrical arrangements, but does not provide a detailed derivation.
  • There is mention of the need for clever changes of variables to achieve separability, with a suggestion to refer to textbooks on phonons and lattice vibrations for further guidance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of familiarity with the topic, and while there is some consensus on the conditions for separability, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific methods for achieving this transformation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of the Hamiltonian formulation for polyatomic systems and the potential need for specific assumptions about symmetry and mass uniformity, which are not fully explored in the exchanges.

GOLDandBRONZE
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Hi!
Would anyone be able to point me toward a detailed explanation of determining the Hamiltonian of a polyatomic quantum oscillator? My current text does not explain the change of coordinates ("using normal coordinates or normal modes") in detail.
All I can find is material on a diatomic quantum oscillator...

Thanks!
 
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Well a one-dimensional Harmonic oscillator has the Hamiltonian:
[tex]H = \frac{1}{2m}\nabla^2 + \frac{1}{2}m\omega^2x^2[/tex]

Generalizing this depends on how many 'springs' you want. If every particle is connected to every other particle with a harmonic potential:
[tex]H = \sum_{i=0}^N\frac{1}{2m}\nabla_i^2 +\sum_{i=0}^N\sum_{j>i}^N \frac{1}{2}m\omega^2(x_i - x_j)^2[/tex]

Where N is the number of particles and x denotes their coordinates.
 
Thanks for your reply. That certainly makes sense, but from what I understand it is possible to make that equation separable, through a change of coordinates or something. The form you wrote will have cross-multiplied terms. How would you go about showing that it can be transformed into a separable Hamiltonian?

Thanks again
 
Yes, IIRC, it's separable in some relatively specific (but useful) circumstances, when you have the same masses and force constants all around, and when the system is all symmetrical.

It requires some clever changes of variables and such. You should probably be able to find the full derivation in any good textbook that handles phonons and lattice vibrations, but I don't remember it offhand. Someone else here might, though.
 

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