Position of a coil relative to the magnetic flux

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between a coil and magnetic flux, specifically whether a magnet must penetrate the plane of a coil to generate an electromotive force (emf) and how changes in magnetic flux affect the coil's response. The scope includes conceptual understanding and technical reasoning related to electromagnetic induction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a magnet does not need to penetrate the plane of a coil to generate an emf, suggesting that the coil only needs to enclose magnetic flux.
  • Others argue that the magnetic field is what matters, and practical tests can demonstrate the relationship between a wire, a magnet, and induced emf.
  • It is noted that relative motion is not required as long as there is a change in the flux passing through the coil.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the concept of enclosing the magnetic field and questions whether a diamagnetic screen could ensure variation of flux.
  • Another participant discusses linear generators, questioning if the translator needs to enclose the magnetic field based on their interpretation of drawings.
  • Some participants explain that a coil acts as a sensor for magnetic field changes occurring within its enclosed volume, emphasizing that changes outside this region do not affect the coil.
  • It is highlighted that to maximize induced voltage, the magnet should be moved rapidly and in close proximity to the coil, with optimal orientation for greatest flux change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the necessity of a magnet penetrating the coil's plane and the conditions under which emf is generated. The discussion remains unresolved with differing interpretations of how magnetic flux interacts with the coil.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various assumptions about magnetic flux and its effects, as well as the implications of shielding and relative motion, which remain open to interpretation and further exploration.

adeborts
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Does a magnet have to penetrate the plane of a coil in order to generate an emf in the coil?
Would an emf be obtained if the coil only passes through the magnetic lines of force, without the magnet crossing the plane of the coil?
Thank you.
 
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It is the magnetic field that counts.
You can test this easily enough with a wire, a magnet, and a sensitive galvinometer.
 
The coil just needs to enclose magnetic flux. When the flux changes, voltage is induced. The coil does not need to pass through the magnetic lines of force, and moving lines of magnetic force do not need to cut the coil.
 
David Lewis said:
The coil just needs to enclose magnetic flux. When the flux changes, voltage is induced. The coil does not need to pass through the magnetic lines of force, and moving lines of magnetic force do not need to cut the coil.
That's correct. Relative motion is not required, all that's needed is that there be a change in the flux passing through the coil, regardless of how that change is brought about.
 
Thanks to each one for the reply!
1) Clarification:
Enclose the magnetic field means surround the magnetic field. Am I understanding this right?
If so, does it mean that running, back-and-forth, a diamagnetic screen between the magnet and the solenoid would ensure the variation of the flux?
2) New question:
Looking at some drawings of linear generators, it seemed to me that the translator (plunger) needed only to translate in front, or above, or beneath the stator windings. No enclosing.
Have I misinterpreted the drawings?
 
A coil can act as a sensor of magnetic field changes, for changes occurring inside the volume enclosed by the coil, typically a cylindrical region. Varying the effectiveness of shielding around a magnet can be one way of affecting the sensor.

Changes that occur entirely outside the region enclosed by the coil cannot affect it. It reacts only to those field lines that actually cut through the region the coil encloses. A magnet waved around near a coil can affect it because magnetic field lines of a magnet penetrate through the region around it in huge arcs (ideally these extend out to infinity, though becoming vanishingly weaker at increasing distance).

To maximize the induced voltage, the magnet must be moved rapidly and in close proximity to the coil (or, equivalently, the coil moved in close proximity to the magnet), and their relative orientation must be optimized to produce greatest flux change within the coil.
 
NascentOxygen said:
A coil can act as a sensor of magnetic field changes, for changes occurring inside the volume enclosed by the coil, typically a cylindrical region. Varying the effectiveness of shielding around a magnet can be one way of affecting the sensor.

Changes that occur entirely outside the region enclosed by the coil cannot affect it. It reacts only to those field lines that actually cut through the region the coil encloses. A magnet waved around near a coil can affect it because magnetic field lines of a magnet penetrate through the region around it in huge arcs (ideally these extend out to infinity, though becoming vanishingly weaker at increasing distance).

To maximize the induced voltage, the magnet must be moved rapidly in close proximity to the coil (or, equivalently, the coil moved in close proximity to the magnet), and their relative orientation must be optimized to produce greatest flux change within the coil.

Excellent!
The arcs are the clincher in the linear case, then.

Thank you very much!
 
adeborts said:
Enclose the magnetic field means surround the magnetic field. Am I understanding this right?

Right. It's the flux that passes through an imaginary surface whose boundary is the wire loop. Flux outside the coil has no effect.
 
Thank you.
 

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