Probability of each of 4 players getting an Ace

  • Thread starter Thread starter alosoleil
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Probability
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the probability that each of four players receives one Ace when a well-shuffled 52-card deck is dealt to them, with each player receiving 13 cards. The discussion centers around the combinatorial aspects of card distribution and the correct application of probability principles.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the total possible partitions of the deck and question the validity of different counting methods for distributing Aces among players. There is a discussion on the probability of each player receiving exactly one Ace and the implications of different approaches to calculating this probability.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with each other's reasoning, questioning the assumptions made in various methods, and providing alternative approaches to the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the correct counting of distributions, but no consensus has been reached on the best method.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the counting of distinct card distributions and the application of combinatorial formulas. Participants are encouraged to clarify their understanding of these concepts as they relate to the problem.

alosoleil
Messages
2
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



A well-shuffled 52-card deck is dealt to 4 players. Find the probability that each of the players gets an Ace.

Homework Equations



Monomial coefficient.

The Attempt at a Solution



Each player gets 13 cards.

Total possible partitions from a 52 card deck with 4 groups each having 13 cards is:
52!/(13!)^2

Total permutations of an Ace is 4!

Why is the answer not 4!/(52!/(13!)^2)?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
alosoleil said:

Homework Statement



A well-shuffled 52-card deck is dealt to 4 players. Find the probability that each of the players gets an Ace.

Homework Equations



Monomial coefficient.

The Attempt at a Solution



Each player gets 13 cards.

Total possible partitions from a 52 card deck with 4 groups each having 13 cards is:
52!/(13!)^2

Total permutations of an Ace is 4!

Why is the answer not 4!/(52!/(13!)^2)?

Think of dealing 13 cards first to player 1, then another 13 to player 2, etc. In a draw of 13 cards from a deck having 4 aces and 48 non-aces, player 1 must get exactly 1 ace. What is the probability of that? Now to player 2 we deal 13 cards from a deck having 3 aces and 36 non-aces, and player 2 must get exactly 1 ace. What is the probability of that? Then we deal 13 cards to player 3 from a deck having 2 aces and 24 non-aces, and player 3 must get exactly 1 ace. What is the probability of that? Of course, if players 1-3 each have exactly 1 ace we are done: player 4 will also get one ace. So, what is the final probability?

RGV
 
Thank you for the reply. I know that the problem can be done as you suggested but I was wondering what the fallacy is in the method that I proposed.
 
alosoleil said:
Thank you for the reply. I know that the problem can be done as you suggested but I was wondering what the fallacy is in the method that I proposed.

You counted things incorrectly. Suppose we want to distribute N (distinct) cards to A, B, C and D, with Mr. A getting a cards, Mr. B getting b cards, Mr. C getting c cards and Mr. D getting d cards (with a+b+c+c=N). How many different dealings there?
\text{Answer} = \frac{N!}{a! b! c! d!}.
If you don't know this, just accept it for now; we will prove it later.

So, the number of dealings = 52!/(13!)^4.

How many dealings give each of A,B,C,D exactly one Ace (assuming 4 aces in the deck)? Well, there are 4! ways to give each player one ace, then there are
\frac{(N-4)!}{(a-1)! (b-1)! (c-1)! (d-1)!} dealings of (N-4) non-aces to the players, giving (a-1) non-aces to Mr. A, etc. For each of these dealings, we just give each player one of the aces, so the total number of such dealings is
\frac{4! (N-4)!}{(a-1)! (b-1)! (c-1)! (d-1)!}. In the example we have N=52, a=b=c=d=13, so the number of one-ace-per-player dealings is 4!*48!/(12!)^4. The required probability is
\text{prob.} = \frac{(13!)^4}{52!} \cdot \frac{4! 48!}{(12!)^4} = \frac{2197}{20825} \doteq 0.1050, You would get exacctly the same probability by implementing the approach in my previous post.

Finally, why is the count as stated above? Look at it sequentially: for the case of the total number of dealings, we first determine the number of distinct hands Mr. A could have; that is C(N,a) = N!/[a! (N-a)!]. Now there are (N-a) cards from which we deal b cards to Mr. B, giving him a total of C(N-a,b) possible hands. Then Mr. C can have C(N-a-b,c) hands, and that leaves Mr. D with one hand. The total is C(N,a)*C(N-a,b)*C(N-a-b,c), which equals the previous result when we recognize that d = N-a-b-c.

RGV
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
31
Views
7K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
17
Views
4K
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
7K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K