What is the problem with the Minkowski relationship in special relativity?

  • Thread starter John Hobson
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Relativity
In summary: Similarly, combining these two clearly distinct situations with two events can only be done for the trivial case where x=t=x'=t'=0.
  • #1
John Hobson
2
0
The Minkowski relationship is an important aspect of special relativity.

(c.t)^2 - x^2 = k

For two points in spacetime, observers moving at different speeds observe different time and space differences between them. Neither is constant but the above relationship is. It is the minus sign that implies space time has a hyperbolic structure.

However if we use the other expressions from special relativity, as an observer moves, clocks slow by the factor gamma so the measured time difference increases by 1/gamma. Similarly rulers shrink by the factor gamma, so measured distances increase by 1/gamma. But if we put these into the above relationship we would get

(c.t)^2 - x^2 = (1/gamma)^2.k

Since gamma is not a constant, this is not the Minkowski relationship. What am I missing?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
John Hobson said:
However if we use the other expressions from special relativity, as an observer moves, clocks slow by the factor gamma so the measured time difference increases by 1/gamma. Similarly rulers shrink by the factor gamma, so measured distances increase by 1/gamma. But if we put these into the above relationship we would get

(c.t)^2 - x^2 = (1/gamma)^2.k

Since gamma is not a constant, this is not the Minkowski relationship. What am I missing?
You're thinking that

Δx' = γ Δx
Δt' = γ Δt

whereas actually

Δx' = γ(Δx - v Δt)
Δt' = γ(Δt - v Δx)
 
  • #3
John Hobson said:
Since gamma is not a constant, this is not the Minkowski relationship. What am I missing?

Measured time differences increase by a factor gamma, but c.t' = c.t.gamma only for x=0 (see Wikipedia Time dilation)
Measured distances decrease by a factor gamma, but x' = x/gamma only for t'=0 (see Wikipedia Length contraction)
Combining these two clearly distinct situations with two events can only be done for the trivial case where x=t=x'=t'=0.
 
  • #4
John Hobson said:
However if we use the other expressions from special relativity, as an observer moves, clocks slow by the factor gamma so the measured time difference increases by 1/gamma. Similarly rulers shrink by the factor gamma, so measured distances increase by 1/gamma.
You have run into a very common problem for new students of relativity. Often the time-dilation and length-contraction formulas are presented as though they are general formulas which always apply as written without any additional terms. The truth of the matter is that they are both simplifications of the Lorentz transform which are only valid under certain specific circumstances.

My recommendation is to not use the length contraction or time dilation formulas at all. Simply use the Lorentz transform always. It will automatically simplify to the length contraction or time dilation formula wherever it is appropriate, but you will never run into situations like this where you misapply them to situations where the assumptions are not met.
 
  • #5
Bill_K said:
whereas actually

Δx' = γ(Δx - v Δt)
Δt' = γ(Δt - v Δx)

Just to make sure the OP doesn't get confused, this is in units where c = 1. Putting in the factors of c explicitly, the first equation is unchanged but the second becomes

Δt' = γ(Δt - v Δx / c^2)
 

1. What is the theory of relativity?

The theory of relativity is a fundamental theory in physics, developed by Albert Einstein in the early 20th century. It describes the relationship between space and time and how they are affected by the presence of mass and energy.

2. What is the difference between special and general relativity?

Special relativity deals with the laws of physics in inertial reference frames, while general relativity includes the effects of gravity and acceleration. Special relativity is used for objects moving at constant speeds, while general relativity is used for objects in non-uniform motion.

3. What is the problem with relativity?

The main problem with relativity is that it is incompatible with quantum mechanics, which describes the behavior of subatomic particles. The two theories have been difficult to reconcile, leading to the search for a unified theory of physics.

4. How has the theory of relativity been proven?

The theory of relativity has been extensively tested and confirmed through numerous experiments and observations. One of the most famous examples is the observation of the bending of light around massive objects, which was predicted by general relativity.

5. What impact has relativity had on our understanding of the universe?

Relativity has revolutionized our understanding of the universe, providing a new framework for understanding the laws of physics. It has also led to advancements in technology, such as GPS systems and gravitational wave detectors. Additionally, it has led to further exploration and discoveries in areas such as black holes and the origins of the universe.

Similar threads

  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
13
Views
884
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
21
Views
609
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
14
Views
782
Replies
20
Views
808
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
27
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
18
Views
1K
Back
Top