Prove/disprove that g(x) = sup f(x), f in F, continuous

  • Thread starter Thread starter QIsReluctant
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Continuous
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves determining the continuity of the function g(x) defined as the supremum of a family of uniformly bounded, equicontinuous real-valued functions on a compact metric space. The original poster seeks to understand whether g(x) is necessarily continuous under these conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Exploratory

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of Ascoli's theorem and the implications of uniform boundedness and equicontinuity on the continuity of g(x). There are attempts to construct sequences of functions that converge to g(x) and to explore the implications of these sequences on continuity. Some participants question the notation used to define g(x) and clarify the meaning of supremum in this context.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations of the notation and the properties of the functions in F being explored. Some participants have offered insights into the continuity argument and the role of equicontinuity, while others are questioning assumptions and definitions. There is no explicit consensus yet on the continuity of g(x).

Contextual Notes

There is an acknowledgment that the family of functions F may be infinite, which complicates the discussion. Participants are also considering the implications of the compactness of the space and the equicontinuity of the function family on the problem at hand.

QIsReluctant
Messages
33
Reaction score
3

Homework Statement


Let X be a compact metric space, F a family of uniformly bounded, equicontinuous real-valued functions on X.

Is the function
g(x) := supf ∈ F f(x)
necessarily continuous?

The Attempt at a Solution


The hypotheses about the function family seem to point to some use of Ascoli's theorem. If we have that g(x) = sup f(x) for f in the family then we have an increasing sequence fn(x) -> g(x) for fixed x.

I tried starting with proving that g is continuous: by Ascoli's theorem this corresponding sequence fn has a (uniformly) convergent subsequence; in particular, g(x) is attained at x by some function f in the closure of F. Perhaps there's a continuity argument to be made there? Any function in the closure of F would have to be continuous because X is compact and the set of bounded continuous functions with compact domain is closed. But the connection to sup f is not clear since sup f need not be the uniform limit of any sequence in F.

I also tried a triangulation argument like this:
Let xn → x. There's a sequence of functions in F such that fk(x) approaches g(x) pointwise. Choose ε > 0, then [fk(x) - g(x)| < ε/3 for sufficiently large k. Since the fk are equicontinuous there exists δ > 0 such that |xn - x| < δ implies [fk(xn) - fk(x)| < ε / 3 for any k.

If I could only guarantee [fk(xn) - g(xn)| < ε/3 for sufficiently large k and n, I will have arrived. But I just can't bridge the gap. Again, it looks like I need some sort of continuity-based argument here, but I don't know how I can make one without assuming that g is continuous.

Then I try to think of counterexamples, but the rather dense hypotheses make counterexamples a little hard to visualize for me.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm sorry, but could you explain exactly what this line means:

$$g(x) := \text{sup}_{f \in F} f(x)$$

You're choosing one of the functions from ##F##, and treating ##f(x)## like a set?

Did you mean:

$$g(x) := \text{sup}\{f \in F \}$$

As in ##g(x)## is chosen to be the biggest function in the set ##F##?

I really think this should read ##g(x) := \text{max}\{f \in F \}## anyway.
 
Did you mean:

g(x):=sup{f∈F}As in g(x) is chosen to be the biggest function in the set F?
No -- I meant that, at each individual x, we choose the supremum of the set of values at x.
For example, if F = {the functions x → ax: a ∈ (0, 1)}, then g(0.5) = 0.5 and g(-0.5) = 0.
 
QIsReluctant said:
No -- I meant that, at each individual x, we choose the supremum of the set of values at x.
For example, if F = {the functions x → ax: a ∈ (0, 1)}, then g(0.5) = 0.5 and g(-0.5) = 0.

So ##g(x)## takes on the value of one of the equicontinuous functions ##f_i \in F, \space 1 \leq i \leq n## for each ##x##. The function ##f_i## chosen for the value of ##x## must maximize ##g(x) = f_i(x)##.

We could write this as ##g(x) := \displaystyle \sup_{1 \leq i \leq n} f_i(x) = \sup \{ f_1(x), f_2(x), \cdots, f_n(x) \}##.

So we choose a value of ##x##, then we choose a value of ##i## such that ##f_i(x)## is maximized.

How do you usually go about showing a function is continuous? How does this apply to ##g(x)##? I think you want to show:

$$\displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} g(x) = \displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} \displaystyle \sup_{1 \leq i \leq n} f_i(x) = \sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), \cdots, f_n(a) \}$$

More formally:

$$\forall \epsilon > 0, \exists \delta > 0 \space | \space 0 < | x - a | < \delta \Rightarrow |g(x) - \sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), \cdots, f_n(a) \}| < \varepsilon$$

You know each ##f_i## is equicontinuous, and you also know ##|\sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), \cdots, f_n(a) \}| \leq M## because the functions in ##F## are uniformly bounded.
 
Last edited:
Zondrina said:
So ##g(x)## takes on the value of one of the equicontinuous functions ##f_i \in F, \space 1 \leq i \leq n## for each ##x##. The function ##f_i## chosen for the value of ##x## must maximize ##g(x) = f_i(x)##.

There is nothing in the question to suggest that F is finite or even countable.
 
pasmith said:
There is nothing in the question to suggest that F is finite or even countable.

Yes, I suppose this would change the notation in my last post a bit. I was intending to mean there are infinitely many of these functions, but I did not express it as such. It's hard to think when you first wake up with no coffee, my apologies.

The previous post I wrote should read something like:

Zondrina said:
So ##g(x)## takes on the value of one of the equicontinuous functions ##f_n \in F## for each ##x##. The function ##f_n## chosen for the value of ##x## must maximize ##g(x) = f_n(x)##.

We could write this as ##g(x) := \displaystyle \sup_{n \to \infty} f_n(x) = \sup \{ f_1(x), f_2(x), ... \}##.

So we choose a value of ##x##, then we choose a value of ##n## such that ##f_n(x)## is maximized.

How do you usually go about showing a function is continuous? How does this apply to ##g(x)##? I think you want to show:

$$\displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} g(x) = \displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} \displaystyle \sup_{n \to \infty} f_n(x) = \sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), ... \}$$

More formally:

$$\forall \epsilon > 0, \exists \delta > 0 \space | \space 0 < | x - a | < \delta \Rightarrow |g(x) - \sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), ... \}| < \varepsilon$$

You know each ##f_n## is equicontinuous, and you also know ##|\sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), ... \}| \leq M## because the functions in ##F## are uniformly bounded.
 
Never mind, sorry, I don't see the delete option.
 
After sleeping on this a bit, I think the notation used in the original post is okay. I can't understand why, but I looked at it differently yesterday than I do today. The limit in my last post should have read:

$$\displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} g(x) = \displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} \displaystyle \sup_{f \in F} f(x) = \sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), f_3(a), ... \}$$

Still, the point is to show ##|g(x) - \sup \{f_1(a), f_2(a), f_3(a), ... \}| < \varepsilon##.

A graphical argument might help to see what is really happening.
 
Last edited:
Zondrina said:
After sleeping on this a bit, I think the notation used in the original post is okay. I can't understand why, but I looked at it differently yesterday than I do today. The limit in my last post should have read:

$$\displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} g(x) = \displaystyle \lim_{x \to a} \displaystyle \sup_{f \in F} f(x) = \sup \{ f_1(a), f_2(a), f_3(a), ... \}$$

Still, the point is to show ##|g(x) - \sup \{f_1(a), f_2(a), f_3(a), ... \}| < \varepsilon##.

A graphical argument might help to see what is really happening.
Throughout this thread I see references to equicontinuous functions, but as far as I am aware there's no such beast. It's the family that's equicontinuous, and from that fact, it seems to me the desired result follows fairly swiftly.
 

Similar threads

Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K