Proving Find isomorphism: What Else Needed?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving an isomorphism between two groups, focusing on the necessary conditions and properties that must be demonstrated. Participants are exploring the requirements for establishing that a function is an isomorphism, particularly in the context of group theory.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to show that the function is bijective and satisfies the property f(xy) = f(x)f(y) for all elements in the groups. There are questions about specific mappings that need to be checked and whether certain checks can be omitted due to the groups being abelian.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the necessary steps to prove the isomorphism, with some participants suggesting that fewer checks may be needed due to the properties of the groups involved. Multiple interpretations of the requirements are being considered, and guidance has been offered regarding the mappings that need to be verified.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of homework rules, which may limit the information they can provide or the methods they can use. The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of the groups being abelian, which influences the approach to proving the isomorphism.

Shackleford
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Is what I did all I need to do? Is there anything else I need to prove?

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n149/camarolt4z28/IMG_20110728_175901.jpg?t=1311905852

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n149/camarolt4z28/IMG_20110728_175917.jpg?t=1311905865
 
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Hi Shackleford! :smile:

You're probably not going to like this, but you're not done yet. You have yet to show that this is an isomorphism.

Your function f is an isomorphism if it is bijective (this is trivial) and if

f(xy)=f(x)f(y)

for all x and y. You have to show that this holds for your groups.

For example, you'll need to show that

f(a^2)=f(a)^2,~f(ba)=f(b)f(a)

and so on for every element. This is a lot of work, but maybe you can find some shortcuts that could reduce the calculations a bit? Or maybe you won't bother with checking all of these things :smile:
 
micromass said:
Hi Shackleford! :smile:

You're probably not going to like this, but you're not done yet. You have yet to show that this is an isomorphism.

Your function f is an isomorphism if it is bijective (this is trivial) and if

f(xy)=f(x)f(y)

for all x and y. You have to show that this holds for your groups.

For example, you'll need to show that

f(a^2)=f(a)^2,~f(ba)=f(b)f(a)

and so on for every element. This is a lot of work, but maybe you can find some shortcuts that could reduce the calculations a bit? Or maybe you won't bother with checking all of these things :smile:

Am I correct in making the transformation by assigning the matrices e, a, b, and ab respectively? If so, then I already showed ab = [ ] [ ] = ba. I need to do a2, too?
 
Shackleford said:
Am I correct in making the transformation by assigning the matrices e, a, b, and ab respectively? If so, then I already showed ab = [ ] [ ] = ba. I need to do a2, too?

Yes, you're matrices are assigned perfectly! :smile: The assignment you wrote down is an homomorphism, but you just need to prove it.
 
One thing to consider is that both groups are abelian. This means that you don't need to check ab and ba. You just need to check one. So I think there's really only 6 mappings you need to check and it is better to do it in a certain order, I think.
 
Robert1986 said:
One thing to consider is that both groups are abelian. This means that you don't need to check ab and ba. You just need to check one. So I think there's really only 6 mappings you need to check and it is better to do it in a certain order, I think.

I need to check six mappings?

The properties for isomorphism are one-to-one correspondence and, generally, if φ(a*b) = φ(a) x φ(b).

Clearly it has the one-to-one correspondence, and I've already shown φ(ab) = φ(a)φ(b). As mentioned previously, I suppose I need to do a2 and b2.
 
Don't you need to show it for a*ab b*ab and ab*ab. These will be trivial, but I don't see how you can get around it.
 
Robert1986 said:
Don't you need to show it for a*ab b*ab and ab*ab. These will be trivial, but I don't see how you can get around it.

I suppose you're right, since the set is so small.
 

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