Question about circular motion and acceleration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of circular motion and acceleration, specifically addressing the relationship between tangential and radial components of acceleration and their magnitudes. Participants explore the mathematical expressions for velocity and acceleration in circular motion, questioning why the magnitude of total acceleration does not align with the expressions used for velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that in circular motion, the expression a = rα represents tangential acceleration, not the total acceleration.
  • Another participant agrees that rα describes only the tangential component of acceleration and emphasizes that total acceleration must be calculated using the root of the sum of the squares of both tangential and radial components.
  • A participant expresses confusion about why the magnitude of acceleration differs from the case of velocity, where v = rw represents total magnitude.
  • One participant provides a mathematical explanation regarding the relationship between speed and acceleration, noting that only the component of acceleration parallel to the velocity affects speed, while orthogonal acceleration changes direction but not speed.
  • A later reply suggests a minor correction to the mathematical explanation, indicating a preference for using v instead of v^2, and expresses gratitude for the clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that rα represents tangential acceleration, but there is disagreement regarding the interpretation of total acceleration and how it is calculated. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationship between the magnitudes of velocity and acceleration.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference the need for a more comprehensive understanding of the components of acceleration in circular motion, highlighting the distinction between tangential and radial contributions. There are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical steps involved in determining total acceleration.

parshyaa
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In circular motion
1) V = rw and ##\vec V## = r ω##\vec e_{tan}##
2) a = rα and ##\vec a## = -##\frac{v^2}{r}####\vec e_{rad}## + rα##\vec e_{tan}##
Where ##\vec e_{tan}## is the unit vector along the tangent in increasing direction of θ
And ##\vec e_{rad}## is the unit vector along the radial outward.
From 1) we see that rω is the magnitude of velocity of particle executing circular motion and its direction is along tangent
But in 2) we see that magnitude of acceleration is rα but this is not the magnitude of total acceleration
How could you explain that rα is not the magnitude of total α
 
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parshyaa said:
But in 2) we see that magnitude of acceleration is rα
This is not correct. It only describes the tangential acceleration.
 
Orodruin said:
This is not correct. It only describes the tangemtial acceleration.
I know that, this is not the magnitude of acceleration, it will be root of the sum of the square of components in both tangential and radical direction, but in v=rω its the total magnitude of the velocity and in a= rα its not the magnitude of total acceleration, its just the magnitude along the tangent, this is what not satisfying me, in the previous case total magnitude is same as v= rw, but this is not the case with accelaration, why is this so
 
Take a general velocity ##\vec v##. Its magnitude, i.e., the speed, ##v## satisfies ##v^2 = \vec v^2## which means that the time derivative ##\dot v## of the speed is given by the time derivative of this expression as
$$
\frac{dv^2}{dt} = 2v\dot v = \frac{d\vec v^2}{dt} = 2\vec v \cdot \frac{d\vec v}{dt} = 2\vec v \cdot \vec a.
\quad
\Longrightarrow
\quad
\dot v = \frac{\vec v \cdot \vec a}{v^2}.
$$
Hence, only the acceleration in the direction parallel to ##\vec v## matters for the change in the speed. Any acceleration orthogonal to the velocity will only change the direction, but not the speed.
 
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Orodruin said:
Take a general velocity ##\vec v##. Its magnitude, i.e., the speed, ##v## satisfies ##v^2 = \vec v^2## which means that the time derivative ##\dot v## of the speed is given by the time derivative of this expression as
$$
\frac{dv^2}{dt} = 2v\dot v = \frac{d\vec v^2}{dt} = 2\vec v \cdot \frac{d\vec v}{dt} = 2\vec v \cdot \vec a.
\quad
\Longrightarrow
\quad
\dot v = \frac{\vec v \cdot \vec a}{v^2}.
$$
Hence, only the acceleration in the direction parallel to ##\vec v## matters for the change in the speed. Any acceleration orthogonal to the velocity will only change the direction, but not the speed.
Wonderfull explanation, just replace v^2 by v
Thank you so much, for this explanation
 

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