Question about orbits and Kepler's problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Kepler's problem, specifically the nature of orbits (elliptic, parabolic, hyperbolic) in relation to a central attractive potential, such as the Sun. Participants explore the conditions under which a projectile starting from infinity with a given velocity and impact parameter can be analyzed to obtain its orbit equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about deriving the orbit equation for a projectile influenced by a central potential starting from infinity.
  • Another participant asserts that the quantities of energy and angular momentum are directly relatable to the problem.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of energy at infinity, with one participant questioning how to find a bounded state if the projectile has only kinetic energy at that point.
  • Several participants clarify that a particle starting from infinity cannot be in a bound state, as it would not satisfy the conditions for bounded orbits.
  • One participant suggests that while a particle from infinity cannot be captured in a bound orbit under a central potential alone, it could be captured through interactions with another body, such as in the context of dark matter research.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that a particle starting from infinity cannot achieve a bound orbit solely under the influence of a central potential. However, there is some exploration of the conditions under which capture could occur through additional interactions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that the projectile's motion is only influenced by the central potential without considering other forces or interactions that could alter its energy state.

L0r3n20
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I've been looking at the Kepler's problem, and it looks like your orbit (elliptic, parabolic or hyperbolic) are given in terms of energy and angular momentum. I was wondering: if I have a central attractive potential (such as the Sun) and a projectile starting from an infinite distance at a given velocity and impact parameter, would it be possible to obtain the orbit equation for such an object? I mean: I would like to solve Kepler's problem for a projectile after a given velocity and impact parameter.
 
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The quantities you quoted are directly relatable to the energy and angular momentum, so yes.
 
Orodruin said:
The quantities you quoted are directly relatable to the energy and angular momentum, so yes.
The module of the angular momentum can be expressed as L = m v b (being b the impact parameter) but what about the energy? I mean if the projectile is at an infinite distance it has only kinetic (therefore positive) energy, so I cannot find any bounded state. What am I missing?
 
If the particle can reach infinity, it obviously is not in a bound state by definition.
 
Orodruin said:
If the particle can reach infinity, it obviously is not in a bound state by definition.
But what if it starts from infinity moving towards the Sun?
 
If it is at infinity it is not in a bound orbit, precisely because of what you mentioned.
 
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Look at it this way: The bound orbits are ellipses of finite major and semi-major axis. Therefore a particle at infinity cannot be on one of those ellipses.
 
Orodruin said:
Look at it this way: The bound orbits are ellipses of finite major and semi-major axis. Therefore a particle at infinity cannot be on one of those ellipses.
Ok, i get it but I was wondering if a particle coming from infinite be captured by an attractive potential and bound into a closed orbit.
 
If it is moving solely under the influence of a central potential: No, that would violate conservation of energy.

Of course it can be captured if it interacts with another body and transfers enough energy to it (part of my research deals with the possible capture of dark matter particles by the Sun.), but this requires additional interactions beyond the motion in the central potential.
 
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Orodruin said:
If it is moving solely under the influence of a central potential: No, that would violate conservation of energy.

Of course it can be captured if it interacts with another body and transfers enough energy to it (part of my research deals with the possible capture of dark matter particles by the Sun.), but this requires additional interactions beyond the motion in the central potential.
Thanks, I really understood! :)
 

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