Questions about frequency and pattern

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "high frequency," exploring its definitions across different contexts such as electronics, radio communication, and signal processing. Participants also inquire about the existence of high frequency square wave signals and the implications of frequency definitions in various applications.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that definitions of high frequency vary, with ranges cited from 3 to 30 MHz and others suggesting around 500 MHz.
  • It is mentioned that high frequency is a relative term, dependent on the context, such as computer signals, radio frequencies, or seismic waves.
  • Mathematically, square waves can have any frequency, and there are real-world applications of high frequency square wave signals, though technology limits their characteristics.
  • One participant discusses the feasibility of achieving a 500 MHz square wave with specific rise times and notes that at frequencies over 1 GHz, the waveform may not appear perfectly square due to measurement limitations.
  • Another participant references the use of square wave pulses in serial communication technologies like Firewire and USB, which operate at high data rates.
  • There is a mention of the electromagnetic spectrum's frequency bands, with the HF band defined as 3 MHz to 30 MHz, and a comparison made to the concept of "high speed" in mechanical systems.
  • A participant suggests that a useful notion of "high-speed" in electronics relates to the wavelength of the signal in relation to the physical dimensions of the system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing definitions of high frequency, indicating that there is no consensus on a singular definition. Multiple competing views regarding the context and implications of high frequency remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of definitions based on context and the variability in understanding high frequency across different fields. There are also unresolved aspects regarding the characteristics of square wave signals at high frequencies.

beatlemaniacj
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I keep getting differing definitions of high frequency. I've seen that it means frequencies from 3 to 30 MHZ. Also I have seen one that claims that it is more around 500 MHZ. Also, is their such a thing as a high frequency square wave signal?
 
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beatlemaniacj said:
I keep getting differing definitions of high frequency. I've seen that it means frequencies from 3 to 30 MHZ. Also I have seen one that claims that it is more around 500 MHZ. Also, is their such a thing as a high frequency square wave signal?

High frequency is a relative term that depends on the context you see it used in. Are we talking about computer signal frequencies, radio communication frequencies, audio range, or seismic Earth wave frequency? They will all have different frequencies that are considered "high frequency" for their purpose.

Mathematically, a square wave can have any frequency. There are lots of square wave signals used in the real world that can be considered high frequency, although there are limits based on which technology is used and the other properties of the signal.
 
There are all different definitions. Yes, you can have high frequency square wave, getting a 500MHz is not that hard. You can have rise time under 100pS, for a 2nS square wave of 100pS transition time is pretty square wave to me. But at higher rate like in over 1GHz, it is not really as square because your measuring instrument has limit also, you don't exactly see a perfect square wave.

Yes, more of the serial communication are using pulses like square wave. Firewire and USB being two example of 400MHz data rate.
 
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A high frequency AC electrical signal.
 
beatlemaniacj said:
I keep getting differing definitions of high frequency. I've seen that it means frequencies from 3 to 30 MHZ. Also I have seen one that claims that it is more around 500 MHZ. Also, is their such a thing as a high frequency square wave signal?
The different bands in the EM spectrum have names, where 3Mhz to 30MHz is arbitrarily called the HF band. But it seems to me that you're asking what is considered high frequency in electronics in general, which to me is like asking what is high speed in a mechanical system (15km/h is fast enough according to my grandma).

The only useful notion of "high-speed" in electronics that I know of, is a system whose signal wavelength (divided by 10, as a rule-of-thumb) is shorter than the system's physical length.

Small systems have a low self-resonant wavelength, and vice versa, so in many ways a 50Hz (λ/10 = 600km) signal on a power-line from NYC to LA (distance = 4000km) is as high-speed as a 2Ghz signal on a 10cm wide PCB.
 
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