Questions on electroweak symmetry breaking

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around electroweak symmetry breaking (EWSB), focusing on the Higgs mechanism, the behavior of the Higgs potential at different energy scales, and the implications of mass and spin for particles in this context. Participants explore theoretical aspects, potential phase transitions, and the relationship between energy and temperature in the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the nature of pole mass in the context of the Higgs mechanism, suggesting that it changes continuously from zero to its mass value as the Higgs field rolls from zero to its vacuum expectation value.
  • Questions are raised about the shape of the Higgs potential at high energy scales, with some participants proposing that the nonzero vacuum may still exist and that symmetry might not be restored at high energies if temperature is held at zero.
  • There is a discussion about the arbitrariness of setting the vacuum potential energy to zero in particle physics and its potential implications in cosmology.
  • Some participants argue that massless photons exhibit only two degrees of freedom (DoF) for spin, while massive particles have three DoF, and that weak bosons behave as massless at high energies.
  • One participant asserts that the minimum of the potential at high energy scales goes to zero, while another questions why this minimum would change, suggesting it remains at a specific value related to the electroweak scale.
  • There is a contention regarding the occurrence of phase transitions, with some asserting that phase transitions are linked to temperature corrections to the potential energy and that symmetry is restored at high energies, while others express confusion about this relationship.
  • Participants discuss the analogy between raising energy and raising temperature, with some questioning the validity of this comparison in the context of particle interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the behavior of the Higgs potential at high energy scales, the nature of phase transitions, and the relationship between energy and temperature. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the behavior of the Higgs potential at different energy scales and the implications of temperature on phase transitions, indicating that assumptions about vacuum states and energy scales may vary.

karlzr
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I have some questions or thoughts about EW symmetry breaking.

(1) Higgs mechanism gives mass to SM particles after the background higgs field rolls from ##h=0## to ##h=v## and symmetry is broken. We are talking about pole mass, aren't we? So pole mass changes continuously from ##0## to ##m## for those massive particles in SM.

(2) What does the Higgs potential energy look like at high energy scales? Does the shape change? More specifically, does the nonzero vacuum still exist. If true, the physical higgs field can always be defined as excitation around this global vacuum for equilibrium state at ##T=0 K##. In other words, symmetry will not be restored simply by going to high energy scales if we stick to zero temperature. Actually in my impression we can set ##V'(h=v)=0## as the renormailization condition when regularizing the quantum corrected potential. I don't understand why it is a valid condition, because I think the vacuum will run at different energy scales.

(3) It is totally arbitrary to set the potential energy of the vacuum in particle physics and usually people choose zero. But this arbitrariness might play an important role in cosmology, so how do we deal with this problem in that situation?
 
That the potential gets its minimum to zero... (or effectively at zero)
 
I think there is something about mass and spin...

Massless photons can only spin forwards or backwards... Only have 2 DoF...

Massive particles have 3 DoF, they can spin orthogonal to their direction of motion... Or equally in all 3 xyz in rest frame

At high energy = short distance scales
Weak bosons act Massless, only showing 2DoF for spin, not 3... They lose the m=0 orthogonal spin projection mode at the super-high energies of the Weak / Higgs bosons

Is this crudely correct?
 
ChrisVer said:
That the potential gets its minimum to zero... (or effectively at zero)
Why does the minimum go to zero at high energy scale? since the minimum of potential energy is always at ##\sqrt{\mu^2/\lambda}##, even though its value is different from electroweak scale.
 
TEFLing said:
I think there is something about mass and spin...

Massless photons can only spin forwards or backwards... Only have 2 DoF...

Massive particles have 3 DoF, they can spin orthogonal to their direction of motion... Or equally in all 3 xyz in rest frame

At high energy = short distance scales
Weak bosons act Massless, only showing 2DoF for spin, not 3... They lose the m=0 orthogonal spin projection mode at the super-high energies of the Weak / Higgs bosons

Is this crudely correct?
It's true that EW gauge bosons have only two dofs because they don't eat goldstone boson until symmetry breaking ( when ##H \neq 0## ) when there begins to be interaction between them.
 
The minimum of the potential you are referring to, is the one you get after the EW SSB... sufficiently above the EW SSB scale, the potential has a parabolic shape with the minimum at zero, and EW symmetry is restored.
There is some phase transition going on inbetween, but I haven't studied what goes on during that time.
 
Phase transition occurs due to temperature correction to the potential energy when the temperature of the universe cools down. I don't think there is phase transition at zero temperature even if we go to very high energy scale and thus I don't see why symmetry is restored by increasing energy. This is why I am confused when people make this kind of statement.
 
  • #10
karlzr said:
Phase transition occurs due to temperature correction to the potential energy when the temperature of the universe cools down. I don't think there is phase transition at zero temperature even if we go to very high energy scale and thus I don't see why symmetry is restored by increasing energy. This is why I am confused when people make this kind of statement.

The phase transition occurs because you go from a vacuum expectation value A to a vacuum expectation value B. In the case of the EWSB this is a transition from a vacuum at zero, to a vacuum at v you gave.

In the Universe evolution, there is no T=0. The temperature/energies started from some high value, and started evolving (dropping) with the scale of the Universe. At some point, you get condensates that break your EW symmetry.
Raising the energies is like raising temperatures. Reaching at some energy enough above the transition's energy (critical energy/temperature) , you can restore your symmetry.
 
  • #11
ChrisVer said:
……
Raising the energies is like raising temperatures. Reaching at some energy enough above the transition's energy (critical energy/temperature) , you can restore your symmetry.

I don't understand why raising the energy is the same as raising temperature. As I understand it, temperature comes into play by changing the occupation number. But raising the energy is possible even for a single scattering process without any statistical distribution of the particles.
 

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