Ratio between Semi major and Velocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between the semi-major axis of planetary orbits and their orbital velocities. Participants explore whether a direct ratio exists between these two quantities, particularly in the context of the solar system, with references to geometric approaches and various orbital formulas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the ratio of the semi-major axes of two planets is equal to the ratio of their velocities, based on their geometric study.
  • Another participant argues that the ratios of orbital velocities and semi-major axes are not directly related, explaining that for circular orbits, velocity varies inversely with the square root of the semi-major axis.
  • A further contribution provides a formula for calculating orbital speed at apoapsis, incorporating eccentricity, and notes that at eccentricity values of 0 and 1, the results align with circular orbits and radial in-fall, respectively.
  • Another formula is introduced for calculating velocity at a distance r from the central body, which depends on the semi-major axis and assumes a specific eccentricity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between semi-major axes and orbital velocities, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus on the matter.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about orbital shapes (circular vs. elliptical) and the implications of eccentricity, which may affect the validity of the proposed relationships and formulas.

phi-lin good
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Hi, has anybody shown that the ratio between two planets semi-major equals the ratio of their velocity. I've been studying the solar system using geometry and came up with formulas that show this relationship. I've checked my work several times and can't find anything wrong with it. I'll post my work up maybe later on today or tomorrow so you guys can check it.
 
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If you are talking about the ratio of the orbital velocities vs ratio of semi-major axi, then these two ratios are not directly related.

For a circular orbit, the orbital velocity can be found by:

[tex]V = \sqrt{\frac{GM}{a}}[/tex]

With G being the gravitational constant, M the mass of the Sun (Or body being orbited) and a the semi-major axis.

With two planets orbiting the same Sun the only thing that changes is a. Thus the orbital velocity changes inversely to the squareroot of the semi-major axis.
 
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It may also be helpful to note that one can calculate the orbit speed at apoapsis distance (a) based on arbitrary eccentricity (e):

[tex]v = \sqrt{\frac{GM}{a} \frac{1 - e}{1 + e} }[/tex]

Where e = 0, this works out to the same as the formula for circular orbit given in the post above.

Where e = 1, this works out to 0 velocity, which is equivalent to radial in-fall.

Likewise, at periapsis distance (p), the formula is:

[tex]v = \sqrt{\frac{GM}{p} \frac{1 + e}{1 - e} }[/tex]

Where e = 1, things obviously fall apart due to division by zero. In other words, it's nonsensical to talk about orbit and radial in-fall in the same breath, since they are mutually exclusive concepts.
 
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Or you can use

[tex]v=\sqrt{GM \left ( \frac{2}{r}- \frac{1}{a} \right )}[/tex]

to find the velocity at a distance of r, for an orbit with a semi-major axis of a (this assumes that the eccentricity of the orbit allows for the given value of r for the given orbit.)
 

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