Relativistic Notation in Waves: Confusion Solved

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation used in relativity for plane waves and the implications of transforming coordinates from Cartesian to polar systems. Participants explore the mathematical expressions involved and the nature of vectors in different coordinate systems, particularly focusing on the transformation properties of these expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the expression for a plane wave in relativity notation and discusses its transformation from Cartesian to polar coordinates, noting that the resulting expression does not yield a scalar.
  • Another participant suggests that when using non-Minkowski coordinates, the position vector should be replaced by the event vector, which is analogous to the position vector in Euclidean space.
  • There is a request for clarification on the concept of the event vector, indicating a lack of familiarity with the term among some participants.
  • A participant confirms the equivalence of the event vector in Minkowski space to the position vector in Euclidean space, which leads to further discussion about the properties of the terms involved.
  • Participants express the understanding that in Minkowski coordinates, the term should be a scalar and identify the components of the vector involved.
  • There is a question about the specific symbol used to denote the event vector, indicating ongoing exploration of notation and terminology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants show some agreement on the need to clarify the nature of the event vector and its role in transformations, but there is no consensus on the implications of the transformation results or the specific notation to be used.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the transformation properties of the expressions are complex and that the relationship between different coordinate systems may introduce additional considerations that are not fully resolved in the discussion.

kent davidge
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If we have a plane wave, usually in Relativity notation it is written as ##A^\alpha = a^\alpha \exp(i x_\alpha k^\alpha)##. (I know we need to take the real part in the end). In cartesian coordinates, and two dimensions say, that ##x_\alpha k^\alpha## would be ##x^\alpha k_\alpha = x k_x + y k_y##. How does it reads in polar coordinates? ##x^\alpha' k_\alpha' = r k_r + \theta k_\theta = r [(\partial x/ \partial r)k_x + (\partial y/ \partial r)k_y] + \theta [(\partial x/\partial \theta )k_x + (\partial y/\partial \theta )k_y] = r (\cos\theta k_x + \sin\theta k_y) + \theta[(-r\sin\theta ) k_x + (r\cos\theta ) k_y]##. The first term is just equal to its version in Cartesian coordinates. But then there is that second term, which makes ##x^\alpha' k_\alpha' \neq x^\alpha k_\alpha##. I already expected this result from the fact that ##x^\alpha## do not transform like, and thus are not, four vectors. So a product like ##x^\alpha k_\alpha## will not be a scalar.

But then what does this result mean? A field like ##A^\alpha = a^\alpha \exp(i x_\alpha k^\alpha)## will not transform as a vector if the exponent is not a scalar. But it should transform as a vector. So what we do?
 
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If you want to do non-Minkowski coordinates, then you should replace ##x^\alpha## by the event vector (which in Minkowski coordinates have the coordinates as components - just like the position vector in Cartesian coordinates in Euclidean space has the coordinates as components).
 
Orodruin said:
event vector
Sorry, I never heard about the event vector. What is it?
 
kent davidge said:
Sorry, I never heard about the event vector. What is it?
It is the same thing in Minkowski space as the position vector is in Euclidean space.
 
Orodruin said:
It is the same thing in Minkowski space as the position vector is in Euclidean space.
Ok. That makes a lot of sense.

- we know that in Minkowski coordinates the term has the form ##x^\alpha k_\alpha##;
- we also know that it should be a scalar;
- so we identify ##x^\alpha## as the components of a vector;

Do you know which symbol is used to denote this vector?
 

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