Rotational Physics - Bead on spinning ring

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around understanding the rotational dynamics of a bead on a spinning ring. Participants seek clarification on the angles at which the bead can remain stationary while the ring rotates, with calculations leading to an angle of approximately 71.47 degrees. There is confusion regarding the second possible angle and the interpretation of the radius in the equations used. Additionally, the group discusses the conditions under which the bead would not leave the bottom position and the implications of increasing the hoop's radius on the bead's stable angles. The conversation emphasizes the need for a clear understanding of forces acting on the bead and the role of acceleration in determining its motion.
AgentRedfield
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I think I'm not understanding some conceptual part of rotational kinematics because all the questions seem connected. I want to figure it out as best I can so please don't solve it but any hints in the right direction would be really appreciated, thanks!

The Question:
A stiff piece of wire is bent into a circle and mounted (vertically) to rotate as shown. A wooden bead with a hole through its center can slide frictionlessly on that wire. The radius of the wire hoop is 15.0 cm and it rotates steadily with a period of 0.450 s
.
66DNgor.png


a) At what angle θ will the bead rotate, along with the hoop, without sliding (up or down)? Show that there are two possible angles (solutions) for this hoop size and rotational speed. Include a clear free body diagram of the bead as part of your solution.
b) At what period would the ball not leave the bottom position (θ =0)?
c) At what period would θ =90 degrees? What would that angular speed then be? Explain, in terms of forces on the bead, why one can’t spin the hoop fast enough for the bead to reach θ =90 degrees.
d) If the hoop were twice the radius, what would be the non-zero angle (at which the bead would rotate)?

Relevant Equations:
Fg=mg
a=mv2/r
v=wr
w=(2*pi)/T

Attempt at solving:

a) If the bead is at θ then there is a normal force directed towards the center of the circle and the force of gravity directed downward. Sum of forces in the 'y' gives Ncosθ-Fg=0 and in 'x' is Nsinθ=ma
I think the acceleration is rw2 so lots of substitution gives θ=tan-1 (rw2 /g)
θ=71.47 degrees
This answer seems reasonable but I'm not sure if I skipped something. Also I don't know how to find the second angle.

b) I think Fg=N but if θ is zero it seems like acceleration would be zero so period would be zero which makes no sense.

c) Normal force would be zero and Fg=mv2/r
so g=rw2 and w=2pi/T, after substitution I got:

w=8.08 rad/s2
T=0.777 s

I think I'm missing the conceptual part of c because my answer seems like normal numbers.

d) I imagine this would be solved the same as part a but the question seems to imply it would only have one angle it rotates at, what changed?

Thanks again for your time and help!
 
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AgentRedfield said:
I think the acceleration is rw2 so lots of substitution gives θ=tan-1 (rw2 /g)
θ=71.47 degrees

What is the meaning of r here?
 
TSny said:
What is the meaning of r here?
Is it not radius?

edit: Would it be r*sin(theta), where r is 0.15 m?
 
Last edited:
AgentRedfield said:
Is it not radius?

edit: Would it be r*sin(theta), where r is 0.15 m?

Note that the ##r## goes back to using ##v^2/r## for the acceleration. So, you just need to consider the meaning of ##r## as used in ##v^2/r##. Then you can decide with confidence if ##r = (.15 \rm{m}) \sin \theta##.
 
Since I'm saying acceleration is only in the x-direction then the ##r## should be ##Rsinθ## because that is the x-component of ##r##.

My Work:
y:
##N \cos \theta = mg##
##N=\frac{mg}{\cos \theta}##
x:
##N \sin \theta = \frac{mv^2}{r} = \frac{mv^2}{R\sin \theta}##
##N = \frac{mv^2}{R}##
##\frac{mg}{\cos \theta} = \frac{mv^2}{R}##
## \cos \theta = \frac{gR}{(\frac{2 \Pi R}{T})^2}##

Answer:
##\theta = 70.42^{\circ}##

This is really close to my earlier answer. The logic of the steps seem right though. I'm also not sure how to get the second angle it would stay at.

Thanks for your help!
 
I believe your answer for ##\theta## is correct. I'm not quite sure of the interpretation of part (a) in regard to finding the second angle. Are negative values of ##\theta## allowed? Do they only want stationary positions of the bead that are stable with respect to small disturbances away from the stationary positions?
 
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