News Russian and Chinese military reaching out

[Dotini]

Russia and Egypt have the common goal of fighting Islamic extremist terrorism. It appears they will be spending more for the Russian fighters than they receive in the entire annual US aid package.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/04/225147.htm
The Egypt bilateral foreign assistance budget for FY2014 is approximately $1.5 billion and includes $1.3 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) – $200 million in Economic Support Funds; and over $7 million for other security assistance programs, including International Military Education and Training, International Narcotics Control and Law Enforcement, and Nonproliferation, Antiterrorism, Demining and Related Programs. The $650 million from FY2014 FMF will be the first of this funding to move forward, pending Congressional notification and approval.

 

[Astronuc]

Russian bombers sightseeing off Cornwall
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31531830

According to a Russian ambassador - just like old times.About 6 years ago, September 2008
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/russia-in-the-21st-century.263442/

 

[Astronuc]

Institute: China now world's third-biggest arms exporter
http://news.yahoo.com/institute-china-now-worlds-third-biggest-arms-exporter-002028737.html

BEIJING (AP) — China has overtaken Germany to become the world's third-biggest arms exporter, although its 5 percent of the market remains small compared to the combined 58 percent of exports from the U.S. and Russia, a new study says.

China's share of the global arms market rose 143 percent during the years from 2010-2014, a period during which the total volume of global arms transfers rose by 16 percent over the previous five years, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said in a report released Monday.
. . .

 

[Astronuc]

This is diplomacy?! Denmark could face attack if joins NATO shield: Russian ambassador
http://news.yahoo.com/denmark-could-face-attack-joins-nato-shield-russian-190819455.html

(AFP) . . .
The threat made by Ambassador Mikhail Vanin in an opinion piece he wrote for the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten sparked an angry reaction and came amid an increasingly Cold War-style standoff between Moscow and the West.

"I do not think that the Danes fully understand the consequences of what happens if Denmark joins the US-led missile defence," Ambassador Mikhail Vanin wrote in the daily.

"If this happens Danish warships become targets for Russian nuclear missiles."
. . .

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not sure if you read that correctly, Astronuc (maybe the reporter didn't either?). It looks like a pretty bland/obvious statement of a reality to me: If the target list Russia keeps includes NATO ships and Norway joins NATO, Norwegian ships get added to the list.

 

[Astronuc]

Looks like Putin over-reached - Putin letter to Arab summit triggers strong Saudi attack
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-letter-arab-summit-triggers-strong-saudi-attack-124059771.html

 

[Monsterboy]

Russia proposes BRICS orbital station.
http://tass.ru/en/non-political/773536

 

[Czcibor]

Russia proposes BRICS orbital station.
http://tass.ru/en/non-political/773536

I highly support such white elephant. Pity, that's only a dream.

Anyway there is such talk about BRICS, while Chinese-Indian relationship are rather cool. (Kashmir, Chinese-Pakistani alliance).

 

[chaoseverlasting]

I think the world is an interesting place right now.

Perhaps another way to look at the situation is not to assess capabilities, but to perhaps assess their psychology.

I understand that having the latest and greatest piece of tech can increase the effectiveness of a country's response, but perhaps the quality of their response is far more relevant.

As a people, the Russians and the Chinese have displayed specific behaviours over the course of their history, and history has a funny way of repeating itself.

There are many here who have seen several conflicts come and go.

It would be interesting to have their take on it.

 

[Astronuc]

China negotiating Horn of Africa military base: Djibouti president
http://news.yahoo.com/china-negotiating-horn-africa-military-djibouti-president-071459015.html

 

[Astronuc]

China to extend military reach, build lighthouses in disputed waters
http://news.yahoo.com/china-boost-offshore-military-capability-defense-strategy-paper-055523045.html

In a policy document issued by the State Council, the Communist-ruled country's cabinet, China vowed to increase its "open seas protection", switching from air defence to both offence and defence, and criticised neighbours who take "provocative actions" on its reefs and islands.

A U.S. State Department spokesman declined to make a specific comment on the Chinese strategy paper, but said Washington urged Beijing "to use its military capabilities in a manner that is conducive to maintaining peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region."

I wonder where this is going to lead.

 

[nsaspook]

China to extend military reach, build lighthouses in disputed waters
http://news.yahoo.com/china-boost-offshore-military-capability-defense-strategy-paper-055523045.html
I wonder where this is going to lead.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/life-in-the-wreck-patrol.763710/

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/china-puts-weapons-on-its-new-artificial-islands-20150527-ghaxa8.html

China says the new sand islands will be used for humanitarian, environmental, fishing and other internationally-minded purposes.

 

[lisab]

China says the new sand islands will be used for humanitarian, environmental, fishing and other internationally-minded purposes.

Whew. Now we can all be comfortable about their intentions! [/s]

 

[Astronuc]

U.S. says China has placed mobile artillery on reclaimed island
http://news.yahoo.com/u-says-china-placed-mobile-artillery-reclaimed-island-103420204.html

Saber rattling?

 

[mheslep]

U.S. says China has placed mobile artillery on reclaimed island
http://news.yahoo.com/u-says-china-placed-mobile-artillery-reclaimed-island-103420204.html

Saber rattling?

What possible use is intended for *mobile* artillery on a remote island? The military purpose of an island has long been to build an airstrip and position aircraft there.

 

[nsaspook]

What possible use is intended for *mobile* artillery on a remote island? The military purpose of an island has long been to build an airstrip and position aircraft there.

Mainly to scare off local 'fishing' trawlers I would think.

 

[Astronuc]

Pentagon chief criticizes Beijing's South China Sea moves
http://news.yahoo.com/us-says-china-artillery-vehicles-artificial-island-093552171--politics.html

US says "Stop", China says "Mind your own business".

Forbes contributor has a rather provocative take on the matter
http://www.forbes.com/sites/donaldk...-to-waters-and-u-s-warship-arrives-at-syubic/But - Impasse over China's island-building shows no sign of easing
http://news.yahoo.com/impasse-over-chinas-island-building-shows-no-sign-135002918--politics.html

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...from-return-of-american-sailors-10290332.html

The Philippines Senate, which had voted in 1991 against renewing the lease on US bases, has dropped its objection to the American return to waters threatened by China’s new insistence on its right to rule almost all the South China Sea – including the Spratly Islands claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei.

 

[rootone]

Loads of countries have made claims on uninhabited islands, and also for that matter disputes arise concerning islands which are inhabited,
What China is doing has plenty of historical precedent, and at least they are not claiming stuff outside of their own back yard,

 

[aquitaine]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...from-return-of-american-sailors-10290332.html

I have to admit I'm always impressed at how the anti-americanism disappears from various allied countries once a major threat comes barreling down on them.

Loads of countries have made claims on uninhabited islands, and also for that matter disputes arise concerning islands which are inhabited,
What China is doing has plenty of historical precedent, and at least they are not claiming stuff outside of their own back yard,

It's not about the islands that are inhabited, it's about the natural resources that are in the area. China is trying to bully it's smaller neighbors into allowing it to grab all of it for itself. And yes, China does have plenty of historical precedent, but mostly that's from what Germany was doing under it's Weltpolitik policy from the 1880's through to World War 1. During that time Germany provoked a number of crises, including most famously the Agadir Crisis, which were aimed at enhancing German prestige on the world scene. What it actually did was isolate Germany and make future wars much much harder to win. While these crises did not directly cause World War 1, they set the stage for it allowing that final crisis to touch off the powder keg in the summer of 1914.

 

[nsaspook]

I have to admit I'm always impressed at how the anti-americanism disappears from various allied countries once a major threat comes barreling down on them.

I worked at both the Subic Bay base and Clark in the 80's. It shouldn't be too hard to get the Navy base up to speed in a few years to rebuild the 7th fleet forward base with a carrier and air squadron home-ported there. The base harbor looks to be in good shape.
USS Shilon in Subic June 1, 2015 .

 

[Czcibor]

Loads of countries have made claims on uninhabited islands, and also for that matter disputes arise concerning islands which are inhabited,

Except that this claim is backed up by much greater firepower?

What China is doing has plenty of historical precedent,

A challenge for you - which kind of international aggression does NOT have a plenty of historical precedent?

and at least they are not claiming stuff outside of their own back yard,

Have you looked on map? Or your definition of "backyard" actually extends to around 1700 km? (distance from Portugal to Scotland) Anyway why aggression against nearby countries should be morally superior to aggression against far away countries? (just curious)

Anyway, such nice policy tend to backfire:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/philippines-japan-military-bases-150605072014102.html
(Philippines are to allow refuelling for Japanese military)

 

[jim hardy]

i know i have tendency to over-worry

but i am reminded of 1930's
when Germany built an arms industry and bunkered up around its neighbors
while England (and US) slept.

http://blogs.cfr.org/davidson/2015/05/27/five-takeaways-from-chinas-bold-new-military-strategy/

A clear-eyed reading of China’s new white paper should temper naïveté in thinking Beijing seeks to become a peaceful, responsible stakeholder in the global order.

 

[mheslep]

i know i have tendency to over-worry

but i am reminded of 1930's
when Germany built an arms industry and bunkered up around its neighbors
while England (and US) slept.

http://blogs.cfr.org/davidson/2015/05/27/five-takeaways-from-chinas-bold-new-military-strategy/

In 1940 Nazi Germany was spending 40% of national income on the military against the US 2%. Today, the US by itself has military spending as much as the next ~dozen countries combined, and 3-4 times that of China. US military spending combined with that of its major allies is 5-6 times that of China, who has no major allies. Claims are circulating that China intends a blue water Navy. Good luck with that. The US operates 10 nuclear powered aircraft carriers with effectively unlimited range, compared to China's zero, and the US has enormous experience in operating and fighting carriers.

So me, I worry that military spending and the incurred debt is too high, with the correct amount of spending always given as "more" by the mouthpieces of the defense industry.

 

[Astronuc]

Exposing Russia’s Secret Army in Syria

Some wear uniforms, some don’t, but from highway checkpoints to jet fighters, Russians are being spotted all over the Assad dictatorship’s heartland.
Russian military officers are now in Damascus and meeting regularly with Iranian and Syrian counterparts, according to a source with close contacts in the Bashar al-Assad regime.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/05/exposing-russia-s-secret-army-in-syria.html

 

[nsaspook]

The Russians never left Syria so it's no secret they are there now.

 

[SteamKing]

In 1940 Nazi Germany was spending 40% of national income on the military against the US 2%. Today, the US by itself has military spending as much as the next ~dozen countries combined, and 3-4 times that of China. US military spending combined with that of its major allies is 5-6 times that of China, who has no major allies. Claims are circulating that China intends a blue water Navy. Good luck with that. The US operates 10 nuclear powered aircraft carriers with effectively unlimited range, compared to China's zero, and the US has enormous experience in operating and fighting carriers.

So me, I worry that military spending and the incurred debt is too high, with the correct amount of spending always given as "more" by the mouthpieces of the defense industry.

According to the 2013 federal budget, defense spending is #3 on the list. #1 is for the Health & Human Services Dept. (which includes Medicare and Medicaid spending) and #2 is for the Social Security Administration. Spending for #1 and #2 accounts for almost half the budget:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget

Spending on #1 and #2 is expected to grow significantly over the next few decades as older workers retire and fewer younger people are working and paying taxes. The effect of the ACA on spending for #1 has yet to be fully realized, but indications are that spending for #1 will increase even faster than otherwise anticipated due to this law. #3 can be cut somewhat, but cutting #1 and/or #2 is difficult, if not impossible, without a lot of members of congress losing their seats. Reforming #1 or #2 in order to delay the date when insolvency occurs is also just as difficult as making outright cuts.

 

[Vanadium 50]

The US federal deficit was larger than the entire DoD spending in every year since 2009. In 2009 and 2011, the deficit was larger than the entire discretionary budget, and it came close in 2010. On the one hand, this illustrates how out of control spending is, but on the other, it shows that Defense is relatively protected.

The number of carrier battle groups was mentioned. With the ongoing decommissioning of the Nimitz here are presently nine.

• CVN-69 (USS Eisenhower) - undergoing sea trials after leaving the yards
• CVN-70 (USS Carl Vinson) - in the yards at San Diego
• CVN-71 (USS Theodore Roosevelt) - Persian Gulf
• CVN-72 (USS Abraham Lincoln) - In the yards for refueling
• CVN-73 (IUSS George Washington) - in San Diego
• CVN-74 (USS John C Stennis) - Eastern Pacific
• CVN-75 (USS Harry Truman) - training off North Carolina
• CVN-76 (USS Ronald Reagan) - Eastern Pacific
• CVN-77 (USS George HW Bush) - in the yards

So, out of 9, 3 are forward deployed. This is not atypical - if you want to deploy 3 or 4 carriers, you need 10-12.

 

[jim hardy]

In 1940 Nazi Germany was spending 40% of national income on the military against the US 2%.

A fairer comparison might be 1942 or 1943 when US spending was 59% and 76% defense.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/total_spending_1942USbn

I just started reading Eisenhower's memoir "Crusade in Europe" . The axis caught us asleep .

In 1940 Germany was already well into the war. United States was still largely isolationist, Roosevelt and a few others understood we'd soon have to build back up our military but that was politically unpopular before Pearl Harbor..
Joe Kennedy abandoned his isolationist stance and threw his support behind Roosevelt only shortly before the 1940 election.

Luckily we had a huge manufacturing base that could quickly transition from consumer goods to war materials. It was prodigious US manufacturing that defeated Japan and Germany.

Disclaimer : I'm not old enough to remember those events; just i did some research once for a short story so have some familiarity with the temper of that time...

old jim