S,S' in the Lorentz transform.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the selection of reference frames S and S' in the context of the Lorentz transformation. Participants explore the definitions and characteristics of these frames, particularly in relation to their motion and the concept of inertial frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to choose the S and S' frames when applying the Lorentz transform.
  • Another participant explains that the S frame is typically considered "at rest," while S' is a moving frame, using the example of a spaceship passing a planet.
  • It is noted that S and S' can be any two frames moving with a constant relative velocity, and it is not necessary for one to be "at rest."
  • A participant emphasizes that S must be an inertial frame, where standard physical laws hold true, and that applying a Lorentz transformation to S yields another inertial frame S' as a result.
  • There is a challenge regarding the definition of inertial frames, questioning whether all physical laws must be true in a frame for it to be considered inertial.
  • A humorous exchange occurs regarding the subjective nature of "favorite" physical laws in the context of defining inertial frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of one frame being "at rest" and the criteria for defining inertial frames. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of physical laws in defining inertial frames.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the definitions provided, particularly concerning the assumptions about physical laws and the criteria for inertial frames. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

IPhO' 2008
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When we use the Lorentz transform. We must have S,S' frame.
How can we choose S,S' frame?
 
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The S frame is the frame "at rest". Usually, you are in the S frame yourself. But if you are in a moving spaceship, for example, and you are asked what people on a planet read on your clock as you whizz by, they are in the "rest frame" S and you are in the moving frame S'.
 
Thank you so much.
 
S and S' can be any two frames moving with a constant relative velocity between them.
It is not necessary that one of them be "at rest".
 
In usual usage, S must be an inertial frame, which is defined to be one in which Maxwell's equations or your favourite laws of physics in their *standard form* are true.

If you use any particular Lorentz transformation on S, you will obtain S', and S' will also be an inertial frame.

Basically, it tells you how to find all other inertial frames given a particular inertial frame.
 
atyy said:
In usual usage, S must be an inertial frame, which is defined to be one in which Maxwell's equations or your favourite laws of physics in their *standard form* are true.
So the rest of the laws of physics that aren't my "favourites" don't have to be true to call a frame inertial?
 
Al68 said:
So the rest of the laws of physics that aren't my "favourites" don't have to be true to call a frame inertial?

Yeah! Which ones don't you like? :smile:
 

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