Shielding an off-center charge with a conducting shell

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of shielding an off-center charge with a conducting spherical shell, focusing on the electric field behavior and charge distribution. Participants explore the application of Gauss's law, symmetry arguments, and the implications of charge distributions on both the inner and outer surfaces of the shell.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using a Gaussian surface just outside the conducting shell to demonstrate that the electric field is zero due to the total charge inside being zero.
  • Another participant asserts that the inside charge can induce a dipolar charge distribution on the outer surface of the shell, which cancels the asymmetry caused by the inside charge.
  • A different participant questions the necessity of using mirror charges, suggesting that symmetry alone can define the electric field outside the shell without needing to consider the inside charge distribution.
  • There is a discussion about the uniqueness of the electric field geometry outside the shell due to the constant potential on the surface, which some participants agree is a key factor.
  • One participant seeks clarification on how to find the charge distribution on the outer surface, indicating uncertainty about the implications of the inner charge distribution.
  • A later reply corrects an earlier misunderstanding regarding the location of the non-constant charge distribution, clarifying that it is on the inside of the sphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of mirror charges and the implications of symmetry in determining the electric field. There is no consensus on the exact nature of the charge distribution on the outer surface, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the charge distributions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the symmetry of the system, the role of the inner charge in influencing the outer charge distribution, and the applicability of Gauss's law in this context. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

greypilgrim
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Hi.

I'd like to show that a conducting, charged spherical shell can shield the field of an inside opposite point charge even if this charge is not at the center. I was thinking about a Gaussian surface just outside the sphere, such that if there were electric field vectors they would be perpendicular to the surface.

I'd now like to show that all those field vectors either point inwards or outwards. Then I could use Gauss's law and show that the field vectors are in fact zero (since the total charge inside is zero). But I can't see why this is true. Couldn't the inside charge maybe induce a dipolar charge distribution on the outside of the sphere if it were really close to sphere?
 
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greypilgrim said:
Couldn't the inside charge maybe induce a dipolar charge distribution on the outside of the sphere if it were really close to sphere?
It does! This is exactly what cancels the asymmetry from the charge inside.

The outer surface of the shell is an equipotential surface. You can use symmetry to find an electric field that fits.
 
Hi.

I assume you're talking about placing a mirror charge outside to make the potential constant on the sphere? I know this method, but I was looking for a simpler way and hoped Gauss might help. I only want to show that the outside field vanishes, not how the inside field looks like.

mfb said:
You can use symmetry to find an electric field that fits.
But the electric field produced by the outside mirror charge is only meaningful on the inside of the sphere, not on the outside, isn't it? At least this is what Wikipedia says, for the potential though.

mfb said:
It does! This is exactly what cancels the asymmetry from the charge inside.
I might be asking for too much, but would you mind drawing a rough sketch about how the charges distribute on the outer and inner surface of the sphere?
 
greypilgrim said:
I assume you're talking about placing a mirror charge outside to make the potential constant on the sphere?
No.

You don't need any mirror charges here.

Outside the spherical shell, the situation is symmetric and you know the total charge. There is exactly one possible electric field geometry that fits to this situation. If you don't care about the inside you don't have to find the charge distribution there.
 
Ah okay, you mean the fact that the potential is constant on the sphere makes the situation symmetric and defines the field by uniqueness.
mfb said:
It does! This is exactly what cancels the asymmetry from the charge inside.
You agreed that there will be a non-constant (even dipolar) charge distribution on the outside of the sphere. How can I find this distribution?
 
greypilgrim said:
You agreed that there will be a non-constant (even dipolar) charge distribution on the outside of the sphere.
Sorry, misread the quoted part. The non-constant charge distribution is on the inside of the sphere.
 

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