Significance of parabola in a line integral?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of specifying that the curve \( C \) is a parabola described by the equation \( y = x^2 \) in the context of evaluating a path integral. Participants explore whether this specification is necessary for solving the integral and discuss the implications of using different representations of the curve.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of stating that \( C \) is a parabola, suggesting that simply using \( y = x^2 \) might suffice for the evaluation of the integral.
  • Others clarify that the path integral must be evaluated along the specified curve, emphasizing the importance of the curve's definition in the context of the integral.
  • There is a discussion about the parametrization of the curve and how it relates to the path integral, with some participants proposing specific forms for the path vector \( \mathbf{r} \).
  • Participants express confusion about the relationship between the path \( \mathbf{r} \) and the integral, leading to further clarification on the integration process along the curve.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the curve's definition for the evaluation of the integral, but there is ongoing debate about the necessity of explicitly stating that it is a parabola. The discussion remains unresolved regarding whether the specification adds value to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the parametrization of the curve and the specific terms of the vector field \( \mathbf{F} \) in relation to the path \( \mathbf{r} \). There are also unresolved questions about the integration steps and the implications of different representations of the curve.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners interested in path integrals, vector calculus, and the significance of curve definitions in mathematical evaluations.

hivesaeed4
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If $${\tmmathbf{r}}$$ and $${\tmmathbf{s}}$$ are piecewise smooth paths, which have the same graph, then they are said to be equivalent paths.

They either trace out a set of points in the same direction, or in the opposite direction.

If they trace out a curve $${C}$$ in the same direction

$${\int_C \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{r}' (t) d t =}$$ $${{\int_{C_{}} \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{s}' (t) d t}}$$

If they trace out a curve $${C}$$ in the opposite direction

$${\int_C \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{r}' (t) d t =}$$$${{- \int_{C_{}} \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{s}' (t) d t}}$$

Evaluate the path integral $${\int_C \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{r}' (t) d t}$$ where

$${\tmmathbf{F}=\tmmathbf{i}}$$

and

$${C}$$ is the parabola $${y = x^2}$$ traced out by $${\tmmathbf{r}}$$ so that the path goes from (0,0) to (1,1).

What's the significance of mentioning that C is a parabola y=x^2? I mean can't we do without it?
 
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hivesaeed4 said:
If $${\tmmathbf{r}}$$ and $${\tmmathbf{s}}$$ are piecewise smooth paths, which have the same graph, then they are said to be equivalent paths.

They either trace out a set of points in the same direction, or in the opposite direction.

If they trace out a curve $${C}$$ in the same direction

$${\int_C \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{r}' (t) d t =}$$ $${{\int_{C_{}} \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{s}' (t) d t}}$$

If they trace out a curve $${C}$$ in the opposite direction

$${\int_C \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{r}' (t) d t =}$$$${{- \int_{C_{}} \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{s}' (t) d t}}$$

Evaluate the path integral $${\int_C \tmmathbf{F} \cdot \tmmathbf{r}' (t) d t}$$ where

$${\tmmathbf{F}=\tmmathbf{i}}$$

and

$${C}$$ is the parabola $${y = x^2}$$ traced out by $${\tmmathbf{r}}$$ so that the path goes from (0,0) to (1,1).

What's the significance of mentioning that C is a parabola y=x^2? I mean can't we do without it?



You should "preview post" before "submit post": something's wrong with your writing.

DonAntonio
 
I agree. So here I've rewritten it:
Evaluate the path integral
∫F.dr (restricted to path C)

where F=i
and C is the parabola y=x^2 traced out by r.

so that the path goes from (0,0) to (1,1).

What's the significance of mentioning that C is a parabola y=x^2? I mean if we forget that C is the parabola y=x^2 and just take y=x^2 can't we do the question.
 
hivesaeed4 said:
I agree. So here I've rewritten it:
Evaluate the path integral
∫F.dr (restricted to path C)

where F=i
and C is the parabola y=x^2 traced out by r.

so that the path goes from (0,0) to (1,1).

What's the significance of mentioning that C is a parabola y=x^2? I mean if we forget that C is the parabola y=x^2 and just take y=x^2 can't we do the question.



I'm not sure I get your point: are asking why didn't they just wrote "..and C is y=x^2..", instead of "...and C is the parabola y = x^2..."??

Well, who cares? As it happens, y = x^2 is a parabola, so they just point out his trivial fact.

DonAntonio
 
Thanks for clearing that part of the question.

Now the curve is y=x^2. So what would r be? The same as the path or would it be ti +tj since we're going from (0,0) to (1,1).

And now the last part (promise) I'm confused about.

When we do ∫ on curve C of F.dr we only are going to do as follows:

Define the terms of F in terms of r. (i.e. Suppose r=10ti+5tj and F= (2y+1)i +10xyj; F would be (10t+1)i+500t^2j.)

Take dot product of F and dr ( dr=in this case would be 10dti+5dtj;)

Integrate the result of the above dot product.

That's all there is to it right. And that is this integrating over a curve?
 
hivesaeed4 said:
Thanks for clearing that part of the question.

Now the curve is y=x^2. So what would r be? The same as the path or would it be ti +tj since we're going from (0,0) to (1,1).


*** You have to fo from (0,0) to (1,1) along [itex]\,\,y=x^2\,\,[/itex] , or in other words: if you write parametrically

this parabola, you get [itex]\,\,\{(t, t^2)\,;\,\,t\in\mathbb{R}\}\,\,[/itex] . Well, what is the range of values

t has to obtain for the above parametric curve to go from (0,0) to (1,1)?


And now the last part (promise) I'm confused about.

When we do ∫ on curve C of F.dr we only are going to do as follows:

Define the terms of F in terms of r. (i.e. Suppose r=10ti+5tj and F= (2y+1)i +10xyj; F would be (10t+1)i+500t^2j.)

Take dot product of F and dr ( dr=in this case would be 10dti+5dtj;)

Integrate the result of the above dot product.

That's all there is to it right. And that is this integrating over a curve?


Yes, that's all...and the important thing here is "integrating over (or better, along) the given curve, not ANY curve...

DonAntonio
 
Okay I get why the curve part is necessary. So in your e.g.( {(t,t^2 );t∈R} ) r would be ti +t^2j.

And then using this value of r we would do the whole procedure of finding the integral of the dot product of F and dr. And this will integrating along the given curve since the r we are using is along the given curve. Right?
 

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