What is Spiritual Energy? - Exploring the Mystery of Our True Being

  • Thread starter Iacchus32
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In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of spiritual energy and its relation to matter and dreams. The speakers question if energy is the source of all things, including matter, and if it can explain the personal impact of dreams. They also debate the existence and nature of conscious energy, with one speaker suggesting it is a form of energy and the other arguing it is a process. The conversation ends with a discussion on the possibility of a Creator and the transmission of information through energy waves.
  • #36
But energy is also fully material, so spirit must be by that argument material.
 
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  • #37
Both of you are sticked in dualism. On the higher level energy/matter are the same. The key is just another orientation of spacetime. Since that dualism is embeded in several types of compositions in all our humans aspects it depends of which participating/observing part we use ... to 'appreciate' this or that part of dualism.
 
  • #38
Originally posted by Royce
In one sense enegry is a barrier, we as beings of one form can not cross or change form. In another sense, energy is not just the medium but it is all that there is in one form or another.

I'm still confuse about this barrier
A barrier is suppose to separate something (IMO). So please tell me if the energy is a barrier and we are one one side (at least that's what I understood) what's on the other side?
 
  • #39
Keep in mind these are my own ideas.
A barrier is essential. It's also an isolator but also a conductor of oscillations.
This barrier has two sides.
To me this barrier is a membrane that is unbreakable and almost infinite elastic. You can get zones with double layers.

Now check these photo's: http://www.mu6.com/show5.html

On photo's 8 and 9 (inversed glove) you can see that 'something' on the other side will still deform spacetime (and gravitational influence us) without being visible to us.

We are just part of the same spacetime. Spacetime has several ways of manifestation. To us they seems to be different - and on our level they are too - but conceptual they are from the same source.

But you will understand that those two sides are all the time influencing each other. The barrier gives the interconnectivity.
 
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  • #40
Guybrush,
I think that we, pelastration and me, are talking about two different things. I think that I am just as confused as you.

Pal, It seems to me that you are talking about cosmological branes and in that way they are actual interacting barriers if they do infact exist. Are you thinking that the spiritual reality can or does occupy one brane and the physical reality another? If so this is an interesting twist to brane, reality hypothesis. I hadn't thought of it that way before. It could indeed explain a lot couldn't it.

To answer your question Guy, what is on the other side is according to Pal, another different brane with different sets of Laws and properties; accordig to me, a different form of energy. If we want to delve into quantum electrodynamics, a different energy field that interacts with but is separate from this field. This is as deep as I can or want to go and it is all pure speculation. I am getting in way over my head.
 
  • #41
Originally posted by Tom
"Conscious energy" is a fabrication of the religious mind, and has no connection to what physicists call "energy". [/B]

On the contrary... Religion is a fabrication of the conscious mind which is in turn existent because of energy. Conscious Energy and the awareness of self does not necessitate religion, but everything within our perception of physical and spiritual realities is the effect of energy (whether it is released or consumed for potential release)... Thus every form of energy relates and has its repective connection to "what physicists call energy".
 
  • #42
Originally posted by Royce
Pal, It seems to me that you are talking about cosmological branes and in that way they are actual interacting barriers if they do infact exist.
Indeed Royce. With one spheric brane you have enough. On local spots 'pelastrations' (penetrations through an unbreakable membrane) create double zones (holons) coupled by a type of pressure valve. these holons can also be called quanta or even condensates.
These holons can combine again to higher levels holons which will have are more and more layers (thus barriers) and these holons start to become less flexible (= more mass).

Originally posted by Royce
Are you thinking that the spiritual reality can or does occupy one brane and the physical reality another?
Yes but in each holon you have several of these branes laying over each other and they are all the time oscillating. But there is also the possibility that the spirit reality can be explained by the distant (non-local) communications between holons because specific excitations in one holon can be conducted OVER the membrane (since all layers in all holons come from the same membrane). Just compare this by us now using the Internet. This approach offers the possibility to link "holons" (like particles, atoms, genes, DNA, cells, humans, trees, earth, etc) with "communication". That's is solving the major enigma of the interconnectivity.
Conceptual I make thus a logic and simple connection between matter and energy, because both are intrinsic inside each holon, but are also part of the larger dynamic system that is in constant movement.

Originally posted by Royce
If so this is an interesting twist to brane, reality hypothesis. I hadn't thought of it that way before. It could indeed explain a lot couldn't it.
Indeed. With this approach you can explain what LIFE is and MIND (or consciousness).
The path to follow to come to that is:
1. The total brane system is in constant move.
2. Thus in each holon there is also constant move between the layers. (thus local: friction, EM, weak/strong forces).
3. The interactions inside each holon create locally a number of specific local oscillations.
4. Local oscillations have a feed-back on all the parent holons ( and up again) and also on the total brane system.

Example:
A. Location: a candy store. You take a lolly. A local holon (brain microtubuline) interacts with another holon (electric impulses related to the taste: sweet). A local microtubuline holon changes locally one of its membrane spots in a 'Knowledge knot' (a new sub-holon). It's stored now SWEET there.
Let's call this level of brain-activities the KITCHEN.
B. Now you go for dinner. A local holon (a tung cell) interacts with a food holon. Chinese sweet-sour dipping sauce! Electric impulses go to the brain. Some of the impulses excite the knowledge knot sweet ( "Hé ... I know this! It's sweet! ") but other electric impulses excite another microtubuline and make a new knowledge knot SOUR. Additional knowledge holons will be made from visual and auditive excitations, such as a knot: red sweet-sour sauce.
Knowledge (overview) can be called the excitation of a brane-connected group of knowledge knots making an 'association'.
Let's call this level of perception-activities the LIVING/DINNER ROOM.
C. Now it gets fun. After dinner you go on Internet and of course straight to physicsforums.com and you send a PM to Monique: "Hé Monique I have a great recipe for you: "Chinese sauce that is sweet and sour! Try it also. This is how to make it: ..."
Let's call this level of communication-activities the INTERNET.

So INFORMATION of local activities in A and B can also be transmitted over C ... and creating on distance an effect (since Monique goes straight to here kitchen and starts to make that sauce in Amsterdam ).

You can apply this approach on everything.
Finally you understand that GRAVITY is the stretching and interconnective effect of the brane and all it's holons. The more holons are concentrated on one spot the higher the mass of that group and the more gravitation effect we account to that group of holons.
 
  • #43
Originally posted by pelastration
But you will understand that those two sides are all the time influencing each other. The barrier gives the interconnectivity.
So perhaps energy becomes the barrier -- or "membrane" -- of which matter and spirit exists on either side?

By the way, do you believe that spirits exist as entities in and of themselves?
 
  • #44
Originally posted by Iacchus32
So perhaps energy becomes the barrier -- or "membrane" -- of which matter and spirit exists on either side?
The barrier or membrane - seen as unbreakable and almost infinite elastic - is imo the only source. From this we can come up with a lot of combinations in layering. Indeed matter and spirit can be on both sides too ... but once they couple inside a holon you have automatically a mirroring situation.

In religious terms:
Buddhists would say: emptiness (Sunyata). But due the dynamics it is also the universal womb (Tathagata in the Lankavatara Sutra): the combinations create the incredible complex chain of life, the wheel of Karma.
In Christianity we can say that God (the Brane) creates first the Spirit (in a first doubling), which creates in a second doubling the Son Jesus (more material).
Since we have in this concept a very strange layering result (from orientation perspective), which creates another second doubling with an EXTRA layer: the Devil (extra matter). You can find more of this on my website.

So you can find in this approach elements of the universal order of succession, you can see also resemblance with the Implicate Order of Bohm, and you find also Einstein spacetime together with the Quanta of QM ... bringing the particles of the Standard model. Is that a good concept?

Originally posted by Iacchus32
By the way, do you believe that spirits exist as entities in and of themselves?
This is indeed a consequence of this concept. There is no lost of energy. When we die we decouple our spiritual body - with holding it's essential spiritual knowledge knots - from the material body.
I see it like a black hole. Two previously coupled hyperspaces de-couple. The middle (center) draws back in a very small - high density spot - till it disappears. Then the two hyperspaces are separated again.
Your spirit is then free but still holds a number of knowledge knots which were made during your life.
So this concept explain reincarnation, and that implies also (independent) spiritual entities. These entities are also holons, which can re-couple with a new set of material holons (brought by the parents). They can also decay to previous hyperspaces (lets say free a deeper higher spiritual level).

You will understand that in this concept the discussion between matter and spirit make not really sense because it touches both. They are united in the concept. If someone says to me: this is a pure materialist theory ... I will confirm it ... but I will also confirm that it is a pure spiritual concept ... because duality is just a perceptual trap. It depends from what side you look to it.
 
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  • #45
Originally posted by pelastration
The barrier or membrane - seen as unbreakable and almost infinite elastic - is imo the only source. From this we can come up with a lot of combinations in layering. Indeed matter and spirit can be on both sides too ... but once they couple inside a holon you have automatically a mirroring situation.
Is energy by its nature intelligent? Or, does intelligence "rule" the use of energy? This is why I think a spiritual world exists, within its own parameters, much in the way a material world exists within its parameters. Whereas the spiritual world signifies the intelligence, which operates and passes through the energy medium or barrier, by which the material world becomes manifests and comes into being -- to serve as "God's footstool" so to speak.

I'm still not sure what you're referring to as the membrane? Would that be energy itself? And how would you account for intelligence, if it were also a part of the membrane? If anything, I think intelligence (mind/spirit/motive) would have to represent the one side of the membrane, by which through the use of energy, "dictates" to the matter (body/flesh/mechanism) what to do on the other side ... Just as the "conscious mind," through the use of the electrical fields of the body, conveys to the body what to do.


You will understand that in this concept the discussion between matter and spirit make not really sense because it touches both. They are united in the concept. If someone says to me: this is a pure materialist theory ... I will confirm it ... but I will also confirm that it is a pure spiritual concept ... because duality is just a perceptual trap. It depends from what side you look to it.
Yes, it is a perceptual trap, but one which can hardly be avoided. Much in the way a caterpillar can hardly understand what it means to be a butterfly, that is, until that time comes ...
 
  • #46
Here's something a bit "off the wall":

What if what we believe to be our Spirit and every thing we know or percieve is only a memory replayed by God!?

What I mean is... If God is "perfect", then it may atone by seeking out flaws amongst a seemingly unified chaos. More so it must still have a purpose, yet God may not KNOW its purpose and thus is compelled to search for it.

If "GOD" suddenly came to be instanly, then wouldn't there still be the eternal pondering of why!? Or how!? If so, then each and every thing within the known universe could be a "cell" manifested within their respective time-space (within God), set aloft to act out God's existence and play their part in an almost neverending mathematical equation.

I say "almost neverending" because I believe that should GOD ever find what it is seeking then it would also bring about its end! At that time the only thing left to experience would be peace and the only true peace is nothingness, which in turn may be the only true peace that anything within God may ultimately have.

I know I'll rest if I just die and fade, but if I continue in spirit, then I simply have more to do and experience... but eventually I would search out my own peace, even if it is to be the end of God, myself. This may all be a test, or preparation for the next realm, but overall it may be one large scale multi-dimensional race in which time and space simply doesn't matter!



--------
I try to think of everything, only to find that I never KNOW anything!
 
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  • #47
Originally posted by Iacchus32
By the way, do you believe that spirits exist as entities in and of themselves?

actually NO
 
  • #48
Originally posted by Hegira
Here's something a bit "off the wall":

What if what we believe to be our Spirit and every thing we know or percieve is only a memory replayed by God!?

What I mean is... If God is "perfect", then it may atone by seeking out flaws amongst a seemingly unified chaos. More so it must still have a purpose, yet God may not KNOW its purpose and thus is compelled to search for it.
I think that if we have order set against the backdrop of chaos, then what it suggests to me is that God "does" know His purpose.


If "GOD" suddenly came to be instanly, then wouldn't there still be the eternal pondering of why!? Or how!? If so, then each and every thing within the known universe could be a "cell" manifested within their respective time-space (within God), set aloft to act out God's existence and play their part in an almost neverending mathematical equation.
Of course what is a God without His creation? In which case one would almost have to think that His creation should be endowed -- or, at least appear in that sense -- with the capacity to act independently from its creator, otherwise how could you distinguish between the two? How could it be determined whether He existed or not?


I say "almost neverending" because I believe that should GOD ever find what it is seeking then it would also bring about its end! At that time the only thing left to experience would be peace and the only true peace is nothingness, which in turn may be the only true peace that anything within God may ultimately have.
I believe this "seeking" aspect has more to do with the creation seeking its source, rather than the Creator which is the source. God does not need to ask why, because God is the why.


I know I'll rest if I just die and fade, but if I continue in spirit, then I simply have more to do and experience... but eventually I would search out my own peace, even if it is to be the end of God, myself. This may all be a test, or preparation for the next realm, but overall it may be one large scale multi-dimensional race in which time and space simply doesn't matter!
Actually it would be more like coming into your own, into a place which is taylor-made and "resonates" to suit who you are (similar to the idea of karma returning to the source from whence it came), where you find yourself alternating -- and are hence refined -- between states of less resonance and more resonance, in which case it's a process that never ends. Whereas time and space don't exist as they do in the material world, but rather as a difference in intensity (time) and a difference in "relatedness" (space). This is so because The Spirit is in a constant state of flux (driven more so by thought and intent and is always changing) and there is no means by which to measure it "linearly."
 
  • #49
Originally posted by Iacchus32
Whereas time and space don't exist as they do in the material world, but rather as a difference in intensity (time) and a difference in "relatedness" (space). This is so because The Spirit is in a constant state of flux (driven more so by thought and intent and is always changing) and there is no means by which to measure it "linearly."
One thing I would like to say here is that Spirit is derived from the instantaneousness of the moment -- where time and space "intersect" -- and plays off of the constant state of flux which exists between energy fields. Therefore, in order to maintain this, time and space cannot exist as it does in the material world, but rather, as a continuous and incredibly "elastic state" (as pelestration would seem to imply) with its adaptations to both thought and intent.

So in this respect, a spirit can exist and have its being, and not be dependent upon matter, and hence time and space. Indeed, a whole hierachy of spirits can and does exist, much as our societies exist in the material world, except on a "higher plane."

Does that make any sense?
 
  • #50
The state of general anesthesia implies a lack of consciousness, or awareness. Take, for example, patients who are intubated yet open their eyes to command at the end of surgery. In terms of responding to command, they are aware. Yet, frequently, they will not remember commands in the operating room, nor will they remember extubation. Thus, they are aware without recall. The challenge to anesthesiologists is to eliminate recall of unpleasant experiences during surgery.

Recent prospective studies suggest that the incidence of awareness in the form of cognitive (response to command) and non-cognitive (dreams, REM) varies from 0.0015% to 0.2%. To put this in perspective, assuming 20,000,000 general anesthetics are performed in the United States each year, the number of patients suffering from awareness with recall will be between 30,000 and 40,000. It is noteworthy from the largest scale study that the incidence approaches 0.2% in cases where neuromuscular blocking agents were used but is approximately half that in the absence of such drugs. Furthermore, although non-paralyzed patients recalled intraoperative events, none of them had anxiety during the wakefulness or had delayed psychiatric symptoms. In contrast, when neuromuscular blocking agents were used, 78% of aware patients had pain, anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

Since patients will often not spontaneously report the occurrence of awareness with recall, the following set of questions has been proposed as an instrument to assess the occurrence of awareness:

1. What is the last thing you remembered before you went to sleep?
2. What is the first thing you remembered when you woke up?
3. Can you remember anything between these two periods?
4. Did you dream during your operation?
5. What was the worst thing about your operation?

Awareness during General Anesthesia
Peter S. Sebel, M.B. B.S., Ph.D., M.B.A.

Sorry for the late response...I just got here.
 
  • #51
Originally posted by Zodiack_Sign
Sorry for the late response...I just got here.
What, as if I've been waiting all this time? What do you mean? And what are you trying to imply by your post above? Are you trying to give an account for why "out of the body" experiences don't exist?
 

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