Solve Dot Product Riddle in 3 or 1 Guess

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a riddle involving two participants, where one selects three numbers and the other attempts to guess them using dot products. The focus is on how the guesser can determine the selected numbers in either three guesses or ideally in one guess, exploring the mathematical implications and strategies involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that person B can use vectors to isolate each number by choosing specific guesses that yield the corresponding components of the dot product.
  • Another participant mentions the importance of finite length numbers and suggests that they can be separated by multiplication for further examination.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the nature of the problem, questioning whether it results in a single equation with three unknowns.
  • There is a clarification that the challenge is to frame the first guess in such a way that the second guess will be correct, implying a strategic approach to the guessing process.
  • One participant emphasizes that the guesses are not restricted to the range of 0-99, hinting at a potential solution that leverages this freedom.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the guessing strategy and the implications of the dot product. Some agree on the mathematical approach, while others question the feasibility of deriving the numbers with the given constraints. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal guessing strategy.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of the guesses and the implications of the dot product in this context. The discussion also highlights the potential for multiple interpretations of the riddle's requirements.

Von Neumann
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I was recently posed a riddle that went like the following:

There are two people. Person A picks three numbers from 0-99. Person B guesses which three numbers that person A has picked. Then, person A gives the dot product of his picked numbers with person B's guessed numbers. The question is how could person B figure out person A's selected numbers in three guesses. Even more challenging is to provide a solution that allows person B to guess the numbers in one guess.

I have a solution to the first part:

Think of person A and person B as having their guess put into vectors \vec{a}=(a_{1}, a_{2}, a_{3}) and \vec{b}=(b_{1}, b_{2}, b_{3}) respectively. To get the corresponding component a_{1}, person B should select the components (1,0,0) so the dot product will yield a_{1}. Same for a_{2} and a_{3}. Simple enough.

The next part I am stumped. The only clue I was given is that person B's three guesses are not restricted between 0-99. Anyone have any insight?
 
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The key is that the numbers have a finite length, and can be separated far enough from each other by multiplication for further examination.
 
Hey guys!

I had no idea it was so simple! I was looking into it too much. Thanks for the help.
 
This also depends upon the value incorporated --In case one is choosing (7 ,77 ,93) as the three value -it may lead to come with 3 guesses .
Finite length numbers can be taken as simple guesses.Comes handy only with vectors
 
I'm probably way off here but don't you get a single equation with 3 unknowns? (and a restricted domain)
 
Von Neumann said:
Even more challenging is to provide a solution that allows person B to guess the numbers in one guess.
That's one additional guess, not one guess. The conversation would go like this:

Person A: I've picked three numbers from 0-99. Can you guess what they are, in the order in which I picked them? As a hint, I'll tell you the inner product of my numbers and your guess if your guess is wrong.
Person B: OK. Here's my first guess: b1, b2, and b3.
Person A: Hey! That's cheating! It's also wrong. But since I didn't make my rules clear enough, I guess I'll have to tell you that the inner product is c.
Person B: OK! Here's my second guess: a1, a2, and a3.
Person A: Correct.

Two guesses, not one. The puzzle is how to frame the first guess so that the second guess will inevitably be correct.
autodidude said:
I'm probably way off here but don't you get a single equation with 3 unknowns? (and a restricted domain)
No. There is a way (there are an infinite number of ways) to formulate the initial guess so that the second guess will always be correct.
 
D H said:
No. There is a way (there are an infinite number of ways) to formulate the initial guess so that the second guess will always be correct.

How? :confused:
 
autodidude said:
How? :confused:

Read Ferramentarius' clue again, and note that the guesses for B are not restricted to the range 0-99.
 

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