Space between nucleus and electrons

Niaboc67 · Jan 16, 2015

As the title suggests. What is the space between the nucleus and electrons of an atom?

Thanks

mainliner · Jan 16, 2015

Id be interested to know this too :)

phinds · Jan 16, 2015

This is not really a meaningful question, since it assumes that electrons have known positions, but they don't. Electrons exist in a probability cloud near the nucleus. You might be thinking of the Bohr model of the atom (which was found a long time ago to not represent reality) which shows the electrons orbiting the nucleus the way a planet orbits the sun.

mainliner · Jan 16, 2015

Its some sort of energy bond?

phinds · Jan 16, 2015

mainliner said: ↑

Its some sort of energy bond?

Yes, there IS an energy bond, but I don't understand how you are relating that to the amount of space.

phinds · Jan 16, 2015

OH ... I just realized. Your question is totally ambiguous. I thought you were asking how much space there is. Are you asking what is IN the space?

Nugatory · Jan 16, 2015

Niaboc67 said: ↑

As the title suggests. What is the space between the nucleus and electrons of an atom?

As phinds says, that's not really a clearly defined concept. However, we can give you an answer that may be close to what you're trying to ask:

A hydrogen atom has a radius of about ##5\times{10}^{-11}## meters (google for "Bohr radius" to see exactly what this means). The nucleus has a radius less than ##10^{-15}## meters, so for all practical purposes the distance from the center is the distance from the nucleus, and we can go with ##5\times{10}^{-11}## meters as the answer.

To get a sense of the distances involved.... If the atom were the size of a soccer ("football" for the non-American world) field, the nucleus would be about the size of the ball.

Niaboc67 · Jan 16, 2015

Ok, I thought I was clear. What is in the space between them. Meaning not what the nucleus or electron are composed of and not there distance. But what is in the SPACE of the atom excluding the nucleus and electron.

Nugatory · Jan 16, 2015

Niaboc67 said: ↑

Ok, I thought I was clear. What is in the space between them. Meaning not what the nucleus or electron are composed of and not there distance. But what is in the SPACE of the atom excluding the nucleus and electron.

Ah - that's easy. Nothing - it's a vacuum.

Niaboc67 · Jan 16, 2015

THANKS! that's exactly what I needed to know. I had suspected that was the case but wanted to know for sure was getting mixed ideas else where.

phinds · Jan 17, 2015

Niaboc67 said: ↑

Ok, I thought I was clear.

"What is the space" could be "What is the size of the space" or "What is in the space". Doesn't seem clear to me at all since it could be either one. I'm beating on this because it's an important lesson that in science, careful formulation of a question is critical.

haael · Jan 17, 2015

Niaboc67 said: ↑

As the title suggests. What is the space between the nucleus and electrons of an atom?

Thanks

It's one angstrom.

Dale · Jan 17, 2015

Nugatory said: ↑

Ah - that's easy. Nothing - it's a vacuum.

Uh, that is not what I would say. There are some very strong fields in that region, both the electron field and the EM field.

Nugatory · Jan 17, 2015

DaleSpam said: ↑

There are some very strong fields in that region, both the electron field and the EM field.

True, but I was thinking that fields (which are present everywhere) wasn't what OP had in mind. If I was further misunderstanding the question I apologize.

jerromyjon · Jan 17, 2015

Room for time-varying interactions. The void (or relative lack thereof) between nuclei signifies the speed and strength of their interactions.

Niaboc67 · Jan 17, 2015

What I wanted to know is what is IN the space around those subatomic particles like protons, electrons quarks and so on. Empty space would make sense and then in the space the strong force and weak force, possibly more? I know those fields exist. Is there any sort of matter that resides in those places? Please name all you can think of that would be in this region of space of the atom.

Dale · Jan 17, 2015

Nugatory said: ↑

was thinking that fields (which are present everywhere) wasn't what OP had in mind.

You are probably right. I would guess that the OP was not asking about fields, but that is all there is at the subatomic level. At that level even matter is just fields.

gianeshwar · Jan 17, 2015

There ,I think is no meaning of empty space.
Even coulomb field is I think explained by Dirac as follows
"Field gives rise to an electron and an anti electron and any other electron can annihilate into this anti elctron and such electrons and antielectrons give rise to maintenance of field"
Please correct me if this understanding is doubtful.
(Ihave assumed field before explaining it which I don't understand )

Dale · Jan 17, 2015

Niaboc67 said: ↑

I know those fields exist. Is there any sort of matter that resides in those places?

At those scales matter is also described by fields. In other words there is a field for electrons and the electron around the nucleus is an excitation of this field. That matter field is quite strong in the space surrounding the nucleus.

Niaboc67 · Jan 29, 2015

@DaleSpam Interesting, I find the whole idea of a field a bit difficult to grasp. All matter you say is fundamentally fields, electrons, protons, quarks et cetera. How would you define these fields?

Thanks

Dale · Jan 29, 2015

This is the subject of quantum field theory and the standard model. I am by no means an expert, and even if I were it is a huge topic.

Niaboc67 · Jan 29, 2015

I see, I talked with a physicist recently and he brought up the idea of the double-slit experiment.I told him that I heard that the observer changes where the atoms go. He said that's what people think when they don't fully understand what's going on. He said it's all about fields, light is a field and it changes form. Is this true? Like, essentially everything is changing forms.

Dale · Jan 29, 2015

Light is a field. Specifically, the electromagnetic field.

I am not sure what he meant by "changes form".

JLowe · Jan 29, 2015

The way I understood this question is that there is quite a bit of "empty space" in a normal atom under normal conditions. And this is why so much matter can be compressed into such small volumes when enough energy is present to overcome the degeneracy pressure. But thats just my own visual interpretation and I could be entirely wrong. I certainly am no expert in the mathematics of the situation.

Niaboc67 · Jan 29, 2015

I think that was more my interpretation of what he was saying. I wish I remembered more of that conversation it was quite deep. Oddly know a few physicists which is why I like coming to this site to gain more insight in their understanding.

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Space between nucleus and electrons

Niaboc67

mainliner

phinds

mainliner

phinds

phinds

Nugatory

Staff: Mentor

Niaboc67

Nugatory

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Niaboc67

phinds

haael

Dale

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Nugatory

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jerromyjon

Niaboc67

Dale

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gianeshwar

Dale

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Niaboc67

Dale

Staff: Mentor

Niaboc67

Dale

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JLowe

Niaboc67