Space Stuff and Launch Info

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The discussion highlights the ongoing advancements and events in the aerospace sector, including the upcoming SpaceX Dragon launch and its significance for cargo delivery to the ISS. Participants share links to various articles detailing recent missions, such as NASA's Juno spacecraft studying Jupiter's Great Red Spot and the ExoMars mission's progress. There is also a focus on the collaboration between government and private sectors in space exploration, emphasizing the potential for technological advancements. Additionally, the conversation touches on intriguing phenomena like the WorldView-2 satellite's debris event and the implications of quantum communication technology demonstrated by China's Quantum Science Satellite. Overall, the thread serves as a hub for sharing and discussing significant aerospace developments.
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  • #1,203
i-Space has tested a vertical rocket landing.
It looks similar to the Grasshopper prototype SpaceX flew in 2012. It's large enough to be a first stage of an orbital rocket (Hyperbola-2), but the company might directly work on the larger Hyperbola-3 instead.
 
  • #1,204
8 minutes until the launch of Starship.

https://www.spacex.com/launches/mission/?missionId=starship-flight-2

Edit: Partial success! The first stage flight worked perfectly, with all engines running. Hot staging worked. The ship came close to orbital velocity but exploded shortly before reaching it. The booster exploded during the boostback burn. A major improvement over the first flight, and I expect the third test to reach orbit.
 
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  • #1,206
Amazon buys 3 Falcon 9 rocket launches for its Kuiper satellites.

We don't know if it's a result of the shareholder lawsuit or just a consequence of the other rockets being delayed. Three launches are not going to change much (~3% of the constellation?), but they'll establish the procedure to launch Kuiper satellites on Falcon 9 and make future additional flights easier if Amazon needs them.

SpaceX has achieved its 250th successful booster landing (166th consecutive success unless I miscounted).
 
  • #1,207
 
  • #1,208
I watched it and I'm not really sure what his message is, or at least how it would apply to Artemis.

What's the point of the scoreboard? Of course Artemis hasn't landed people on the Moon yet. It started 6 years ago, the contract for the first lander is from 2021, and Artemis doesn't have the 4% of the federal funding Apollo had. Asking for a Moon landing now would be absurd.

He suggests to do Artemis more like Apollo, but Artemis is explicitly not a repetition of Apollo. NASA doesn't want missions that put two astronauts on the Moon for a few days. The goal is long-term missions and exploration, working towards a future Moon base.

He discusses how Apollo did meaningful but not too ambitious steps with every mission and then thinks Artemis is doing too much per mission. For crewed missions you don't have much of a choice with SLS only flying once every 1-2 years. If you want to send 10 crews on preparation missions then your project takes 10-20 years, i.e. it's going to get cancelled at some point. It's not the 1960s any more, however, today uncrewed spacecraft can test most of the things crewed spacecraft can. If we include these then there are many smaller steps towards a lunar landing:

* Getting Starship to orbit
* Recovering booster and/or ship
* Reusing booster and maybe the ship
* Demonstrating propellant transfer in orbit
* An uncrewed landing on the Moon (and presumably a take-off demonstration)
* Dock to Orion and repeat that with crew

Meanwhile SLS/Orion do their own three-step program:
* Orbit the Moon without crew, return to Earth (Artemis 1, completed).
* Fly around the Moon with crew, return to Earth (Artemis 2).
* Orbit the Moon with crew, dock with Starship to transfer two astronauts, wait for them to return, return to Earth (Artemis 3).

The Apollo lander needed a real-life lander simulation because (a) simulators were bad and (b) the pilots actually piloted the spacecraft. We didn't have high resolution surface images and we didn't have live image processing to spot obstacles on the ground. Today we have both. Starship won't be landed manually. There will be a big red "abort landing" button, you don't need to fly to train for that.

We don't know how many refueling flights Starship will need, yes. So what? We have an upper limit, and so far nothing suggests that limit would be broken. Future performance improvements can lower the number of flights needed, which means we don't have a specific number yet. I can't see how the option to save flights would be a bad thing.

So let's look at the summary points at 1:01:40:
  • "Look at the mission differently." - that's implying everyone is wrong about the mission now. Bold statement. Unless he wants people who are right to be less right in the future.
  • "In a world of talkers, be a thinker and a doer." - sure, but it's ironic given that he is a talker.
  • "Ask the hard questions." - I agree, but that doesn't need a 1 hour talk. I don't see him ask many hard questions in the talk. Why NRHO to meet up with the lander is an excellent question, and he discusses that - unfortunately it's too late to change that now. Why SLS at all is a question he never mentions. Probably because the talk is in Alabama, he is from Alabama, and most of his aerospace contacts are in Alabama. Can you guess which state is most dependent on SLS jobs? Why did NASA wait until 2020 to start contracts for the lander as the most difficult component, with less than 1/10 of the budget for the vehicle that has an easier job? I don't see him ask that either.

----

Avio accidentally scrapped two tanks needed to fly Vega - before flying the final Vega.
 
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  • #1,209
It's getting busy on the Moon. A crewed mission is not close yet, but governments and private companies are racing to put payloads on the surface to have a valuable product in the future.

  • SLIM is a Japanese mission currently orbiting the Moon with a planned landing January 19.
  • Nova-C is a private mission to the Moon with a planned Falcon 9 launch January 12 and a planned landing January 19 or 21.
  • Peregrine is a private mission to the Moon with a planned Vulcan Centaur launch. The nominal date for that launch is December 24 with an expected landing January 25, but it's going to be the first flight of the rocket. They did a wet dress rehearsal and couldn't finish all tests, which means the launch will likely shift to January 8 or later. It's probably delaying the landing as well.

SLIM could become the first successful Japanese lander while Nova-C and Peregrine will be the first American landing attempts since Apollo 17.

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Falcon Heavy is scheduled to launch the Boeing X-37B spaceplane on Tuesday 01:14 UTC, in 1 day and ~6 hours. We don't know to which orbit it will go, but it will be higher than its previous low Earth orbit missions.
Edit: Delayed to some point later in December.
 
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  • #1,210
Boeing X-37B on the Falcon Heavy launched, people are still looking for its orbit.

Vulcan is on the pad and preparing for its maiden flight in 16 hours (07:18 UTC). It will launch Peregrine towards the Moon. It's the first ULA-developed rocket and it will become its rocket for everything, with a variable number of solid rocket motors for different missions. The Delta family has just a single launch left, Atlas V has 17 launches left.
Live coverage will be here:



SLIM is still on track to try its Moon landing on January 19, Peregrine will follow, Intuitive Machines now aims at a Nova-C launch mid February and presumably a landing in late February.
 
  • #1,211
The Vulcan launch delivered Peregrine to the right orbit but the payload now has a propellant leak. They are still looking into what they can do, but a Moon landing is ruled out.
SLIM and Nova-C, in that order, should be the next landing attempts now.
 
  • #1,212
mfb said:
Boeing X-37B on the Falcon Heavy launched, people are still looking for its orbit.

Vulcan is on the pad and preparing for its maiden flight in 16 hours (07:18 UTC). It will launch Peregrine towards the Moon. It's the first ULA-developed rocket and it will become its rocket for everything, with a variable number of solid rocket motors for different missions. The Delta family has just a single launch left, Atlas V has 17 launches left.
Live coverage will be here:



SLIM is still on track to try its Moon landing on January 19, Peregrine will follow, Intuitive Machines now aims at a Nova-C launch mid February and presumably a landing in late February.

Unfortunately, Peregrine has problems, and moon landing unlikely.

Just hours later, though, Astrobotic reported an inability to orient Peregrine's solar panel towards the Sun and keep its battery topped up. A propulsion system glitch was found to be causing a critical loss of fuel and damaging the spacecraft's exterior.

The company said Monday the mission had "no chance of soft landing" -- dashing hopes for the first ever successful landing by a non-government mission, and America's first soft touchdown on the Moon since Apollo 17 in 1972.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/tech...on-fails-and-nasa-program-delayed/ar-AA1mIwyD
NASA Administrator Bill Nelson announced the agency was pushing back its planned return of astronauts to the lunar surface from December 2025 to September 2026, citing safety issues with the Orion crew capsule.
 
  • #1,213
Successful maiden flight of Gravity-1 by Orienspace. With 6.5 tonnes to low Earth orbit this is a very large rocket for a startup. It's launched from a ship and the exhaust creates an interesting pattern. Launch video:

 
  • #1,214
The livestream seems to cover the upcoming press conference only but the Japanese Moon lander should be on the surface in one way or another now.

Edit: Successful landing
Japan has become the fifth country to softly land on the Moon.

Edit2: Looks like there are signals coming from the surface, but not what the scientists expect. Maybe something broke.

Edit3: No solar power at the moment, lander runs on its battery. It talks to Earth.

 
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  • #1,215
mfb said:
Kind of. Stricken Japanese Moon mission landed on its nose

JapaneseMoonLander.JPG
 
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  • #1,216
It was supposed to land on its side, just rotated a bit too much.

Speaking of landings... Ingenuity has a damaged rotor. Its 72nd flight was the last one.

A Cygnus capsule is being prepared for its first flight on a Falcon 9 (January 29). It used to launch on Antares, but the combination of Russian engines and Ukrainian first stage isn't flying that well now.

IM-1, the next flight to the Moon, is now scheduled to launch February 14.
 
  • #1,217
mfb said:
It was supposed to land on its side
That's its side in the artist's image below? I thought it was supposed to land on its feet/struts/whatever...

1706234903996.png
 
  • #1,218
That is its side as seen by the engine. Another hop test of a future Chinese rocket (roughly the size of a Falcon 9 booster):

 
  • #1,219
The Nova-C Moon lander from Intuitive Machines is being prepared for launch. It has an instantaneous launch window on February 14, 05:57 UTC (21 hours after this post). NASA live coverage will be here.
If successful, it will be the first US mission to land on the Moon since Apollo 17.

It uses cryogenic propellant (methane+oxygen), so SpaceX had to modify the ground equipment and the fairing of its Falcon 9 to load that as late as possible to minimize boil-off.

 
  • #1,220
mfb said:
It has an instantaneous launch window on February 14, 05:57 UTC
Why is it so short? Wikipedia says that the term means that the launch window can be as short as one second!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_window
 
  • #1,221
berkeman said:
Why is it so short? Wikipedia says that the term means that the launch window can be as short as one second!

Most likely Fuel Economy.

They are seemingly limiting to, or limited by, an essentially ballistic trajectory to reach the Moon. Rockets with extra fuel capacity and navigation capability can adjust to a slightly non-optimal launch time and still reach their target landing site or orbit.

For low-orbit Earth-circling satellites the launch time doesn't much matter. For other Solar System targets, missing a launch window means the target is in a different place.

Cheers,
Tom
 
  • #1,222
Either the countdown works without issue or they need ~10-15 minutes to check what's wrong before they can restart the countdown. Launching a few seconds later wouldn't be an issue for orbital mechanics, but making a launch window a minute long is no difference to an instantaneous launch window. Launching 10 minutes later puts you in the wrong orbital plane. It's the same for launches to the ISS where you need to match its orbital plane.

Something was wrong with the methane temperature, next attempt will be tomorrow (1 day ~1 hour from now).
 
  • #1,223
Methane temperatures are good now. T-53 minutes

https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/02/...launch-falcon-9-rocket-on-moon-bound-mission/ (live)
https://plus.nasa.gov/scheduled-video/clps-intuitive-machines-im-1-launch-coverage/ (starting in 8 min)

From the NASA coverage: Falcon teams use sensors and knowledge from the Starship team (which works with methane) for the methane fueling.

SpaceX has launched a military satellite a few hours ago and prepares a Starlink launch in California - it's possible they'll launch three times within 24 hours, which would be a new record.

Edit: Successful launch. Landing is planned to be in a few days.
 
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  • #1,224
The lander has test-fired its engine successfully. It has also taken a few images of Earth. In one of them you see the Falcon 9 upper stage floating around:

Landing should happen on the 22th.


The second launch of H3 was successful. Japan has a successor to the H-II now.
 
  • #1,228
Odysseus Lunar Lander tipped over according to Intuitive Machines.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/moon-lander-tipped-over-on-its-side-during-touchdown/

Apparently, the craft had a vertical speed of 6 mph (~9.7 km/h) and a horizontal speed of 2 mph (3.2 km/h). Fuel tank reading indicate that Odysseus is lying on its side. There is a thought that one of the legs may have hit something. As I recall, the Apollo craft landed without much of a horizontal drift.

Barron's wrote an article emphasizing the drop in the stock price of Intuitive Machines. The author is apparently Al Root, which I cannot tell is Artificial Intelligence (capital i) or Al (with lowercase L).
https://www.barrons.com/articles/moon-lunar-landing-odysseus-nasa-intuitive-6e97c668

https://www.space.com/intuitive-machines-odysseus-moon-lander-tipped-over

https://news.yahoo.com/moon-lander-described-alive-well-220449921.html
 
  • #1,229
The name links to the author page:
Allen Root is a senior writer at Barron’s. He spent 17 years on Wall Street and joined Barron's from broker R.W Baird, where he was the industrial strategist.

They are the first company to make a soft landing. SpaceIL tried and crashed. ispace tried and crashed. Astrobotic tried and didn't reach the Moon. Intuitive Machines succeeded, even though the orientation is wrong. The stock price dropped 30% but it's still at the level it had before the launch. They'll be fine.
 
  • #1,230
AP News - Toppled moon lander sends back more images, with only hours left until it dies
https://apnews.com/article/moon-landing-private-nasa-c00b3c7f2f1330b11d71ad6ecbc7833b

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) — A moon lander that ended up on its side managed to beam back more pictures, with only hours remaining before it dies.

Intuitive Machines posted new photos of the moon’s unexplored south polar region Tuesday.

The company’s lander, Odysseus, captured the shots last Thursday shortly before making the first U.S. touchdown on the moon in more than 50 years. Odysseus landed on its side, hampering communication and power generation.
 
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  • #1,232
It turns out that Odysseus landed on the Moon without any altimetry data
Interesting article by Eric Berger. The spacecraft was supposed to land with its own range finders. A few hours before the planned landing they discovered that they wouldn't work so they rewrote the software to use a hosted NASA payload for an estimate, but it could only provide data down to 15 km above the surface. The lander landed without reliable altitude measurements - at the time of touchdown it expected to be 100 meters above the surface. The mission had many more close calls, but still managed to get to the surface gently and make most of its payloads work well. The company has more landers planned.

Crew-8 is planned to fly on Dragon Friday March 1, 5:04 UTC. That's a night launch in Florida.
 
  • #1,233
How come they could land on the moon almost 55 years ago but not now?! And not since then?! :smile:

So, a "knee-jerk" landing like this is not-so-good news for possible new investors like myself. And why the software problem right at the crucial time to land, yikes?!

Maybe a lower center of gravity is needed, four rubber tires on the bottom like a '55 Chevy, maybe training wheels on the sides, even some spare Apollo retro rocket parts, these might be part of the changes needed, possibly.
 
  • #1,234
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/intuitive-machines-faces-early-end-213530800.html

Intuitive Machines’ historic landing is due in no small part to extremely quick thinking on the part of flight controllers, who had to improvise a navigation solution after they learned the spacecraft’s onboard laser range finders — which collect essential landing data, like altitude and horizontal velocity — were not working. Remarkably, they turned instead to one of the payloads on the lander, a doppler lidar technology demonstrator from NASA, to help land the vehicle on the surface.

Company officials later revealed that the laser range finders stopped working due to human error and trade-offs made to save time and money, rather than any technical issues. Engineers chose not to test fire the laser system on the ground due to cost and scheduling, Intuitive Machines’ head of navigation systems, Mike Hansen, told Reuters yesterday. Engineers also failed to toggle a physical safety switch on the system prior to launch.

Edit/update: I heard on a news program news program last night that Odysseus landed a bit too hard and one of legs broke, which caused the lander to tip over on the side with the main solar panel.
 
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  • #1,235
difalcojr said:
How come they could land on the moon almost 55 years ago but not now?!
I think a big part of it is that those missions had human pilots that could take over and do final adjustments in the landing to miss rocks and ridges and such. Apparently the autonomous systems are not quite to the human-pilot capability level yet.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/apollo-11-plus-45-how-neil-armstrong-saved-day-moon-n160386
1709141867729.png


Luckily, the Artemis II moon lander will have people on board, including a pilot to help avoid such issues. With such a low high aspect ratio, a ridge or boulder could tip it over...

1709135155685.png

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/s...-moon-landing-may-be-pushed-back-report-says/
 
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  • #1,236
Artemis II will fly a free-return trajectory, no orbit and no landing. Artemis III is the planned landing, and Starship will fly autonomous - the crew will have some abort buttons and maybe some choice of the specific landing location but won't fly it manually.
difalcojr said:
How come they could land on the moon almost 55 years ago but not now?! And not since then?! :smile:
The Apollo program spent $180 billion to make 6 Moon landings.
Intuitive Machines spent $0.1 billion for one landing.
 
  • #1,237
Launch of Crew-8 in 1.5 hours
Jeanette Epps was originally assigned to Starliner and was moved to Dragon to finally give her an actual flight. Out of the 4 people on board (3*US, 1*Russia), only one has been in space before.

 
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  • #1,238
Wow, that's impressive to watch live!! Thanks. Packed in like sardines, huge acceleration, speed. Precision in space. Wonder how much g-force they felt? Or how fast their hearts were beating? Fantastic!
 
  • #1,240

Finding and Digitizing the Apollo 11 Moon Landing on NBC (July 20, 1969 - Partial Broadcast, B/W)​

 
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  • #1,241
Crew-7 will reenter and land in the very early morning for the US. It should be nicely visible everywhere along its reentry path (weather permitting):



(Link if the embedding doesn't show up)
 
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  • #1,242
A bit like a slow shooting star, just more controlled and with 4 people sitting inside.




Starship is still no earlier than March 14, in less than 2 days.
 
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  • #1,244
The last Delta IV Heavy launch, a military satellite, is scheduled for March 28. It is also the final launch of the whole Delta rocket family. Its first launch was in 1960, just two years after the first orbital launch of the US. It stayed one of the most popular launch families for decades. Now it gets replaced by Vulcan, which is cheaper and more powerful.

Delta IV (Medium/Heavy) was the only rocket to reach orbit purely with liquid hydrogen and oxygen as propellant. It provides a high specific impulse but low thrust so it's commonly used together with solid rocket motors (high thrust, low specific impulse) or only on upper stages.
It burns a lot of hydrogen before takeoff, which always makes it look like the whole rocket is going to blow up on the launch pad. It doesn't, all the flames are supposed to be there.

 
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  • #1,245
After some delays the Delta IV Heavy launch is now scheduled for April 9, 16:53 UTC, or 24 hours after this comment.

The Falcon rocket family has reached 300 successful missions in a row (301 right now). 8 more launches to give Falcon 9 alone a streak of 300, too.
 
  • #1,246
Upcoming launch... but from where?

If it's Vandenberg, I'll get up early.
 
  • #1,248
Tom.G said:
If it's Vandenberg, I'll get up early.

mfb said:
A Falcon 9 will launch from Vandenberg on Thursday 5 am local time.
Welll... maybe not THAT early, especially as it has a 4.5hr. launch window. 😥
 
  • #1,249
Might be close to sunrise, has a chance to get a space jellyfish. A launch early in the window is the most likely.

Shutdown of vacuum-optimized raptor in slow motion. The pressure of the exhaust is below atmospheric pressure, which leads to the weird effects seen in the video:

 
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