Space Stuff and Launch Info

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The discussion highlights the ongoing advancements and events in the aerospace sector, including the upcoming SpaceX Dragon launch and its significance for cargo delivery to the ISS. Participants share links to various articles detailing recent missions, such as NASA's Juno spacecraft studying Jupiter's Great Red Spot and the ExoMars mission's progress. There is also a focus on the collaboration between government and private sectors in space exploration, emphasizing the potential for technological advancements. Additionally, the conversation touches on intriguing phenomena like the WorldView-2 satellite's debris event and the implications of quantum communication technology demonstrated by China's Quantum Science Satellite. Overall, the thread serves as a hub for sharing and discussing significant aerospace developments.
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"The crew brought a much-needed replacement pump that processes urine aboard the station and turns it into drinking water."

According to Miles O'Brien, this was their "number one" priority.
 
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  • #1,292
External views of the Super Heavy landing burn, looks pretty similar to Falcon 9 but with a larger vehicle. A tower catch attempt on the next flight is possible, although SpaceX will need to analyze the water landing in more detail to determine if it's worth the risk.



There was an Australian airplane that flew into the Starship reentry zone, presumably booked by SpaceX to observe it - it's possible we'll get some views of that eventually. Despite the flaps melting, it splashed down only 6 km away from its target. That's more precise than most Mars landings.
 
  • #1,293
In post 1283 of this thread, the @Borg provided this link to the SpaceX video coverage of Starship 4 launch (for those of us without a direct connect to the Collective).

For me (and, I think for most), the main plot line for this video is focused on the reentry - something I've been waiting for for over 5 years - for both the technical challenge and as a critical Starship development milestone.
The technical challenge is to protect the reusable ship during reentry with the lowest mass shielding as possible. The development milestone I was focused on was the point at which Starship becomes destined for success - even if Elon and SpaceX. I think we have just passed that milestone. By my guesstimate, Starship's remaining development costs are low enough that if the whole thing was sold off, the new owner would find it far more tempting to finish it off than to scrap it. In short, I don't see anything short of WW3 stopping this thing.

But back to the technical challenge:

What made the reentry key for me was Musk's description of it in this January 2015 Popular Mechanics article:
On the windward side, what I want to do is have the first-ever regenerative heat shield. A double-walled stainless shell—like a stainless-steel sandwich, essentially, with two layers. You just need, essentially, two layers that are joined with stringers. You flow either fuel or water in between the sandwich layer, and then you have micro-perforations on the outside—very tiny perforations—and you essentially bleed water, or you could bleed fuel, through the micro-perforations on the outside. You wouldn’t see them unless you got up close. But you use transpiration cooling to cool the windward side of the rocket. So the whole thing will still look fully chrome, like this cocktail shaker in front of us. But one side will be double-walled and that serves a double purpose, which is to stiffen the structure of the vehicle so it does not suffer from the fate of the Atlas. You have a heat shield that serves double duty as structure.
My immediate thought was, "You gotta show me that". With Elon's reputation, you had to believe he could make it work - but still ... like a steam iron?
Of course, the stainless steel part worked out very well. For the most part, the unshielded leeward side of the ship stood up well.

So here is what I saw in the reentry video:
This first screen grab (below) is at 2:29:33 in the video. Notice that the time stamp at the top of the video is T+45:17 while the timestamp associated with the telemetry is 45:00. The best evidence of this "time warp" is during the booster landing. Clearly, the commentator reactions to the video off by a few seconds from each other and one commentators claims that the landing burn was late by 17 seconds. During the engine cutoff of the upper stage, the telemetry seemed to precede the video by just over a second.
That "pitch indicator" (small spacecraft outlines with the horizon lines) often seem to indicate something other than an actual pitch measurements. For example, see the video at T+9:11 where the icon does a somersault. This will be important to note when attempting to make sense of the splash down segment.
And one final telemetry quirk: those six thrust indicators will not be functioning from this point on. So don't expect anything from them during splashdown.
I've also moved the YouTube progress bar down and out of the image area.
4500.jpg

The speed is over Mach 25 but the altitude is only 107 KM (half its apogee) - that plasma from reentry is just starting to show as a faint pink zone below the belly beneath flap. This is the "flapcam" showing the view of the aft port-side flap form the forward port-side flap. Apparently (but not surprisingly), this camera did not survive reentry.

At T+46:00 (image below) we are faster and lower. The plasma is a lot brighter - but a lot of that is because we have crossed into night and the video system is making brightness adjustments.
4600.jpg


This next screenshot was take 6 minutes later at T+52:00, shortly after peak heating. The altitude is 68Km, which it has been for over a minute and which will remain for over another minute. The speed is about Mach 22.
5200.jpg

There is a light gray zone above the flap showing some out-gassing. The engine is being chilled, so the out-gassing may be related to that. Also, there have been occasional "sparks" in the wind stream from belly material. There is none showing in this frame, but there will be lots more to come.

Three minutes later (image below) at T+55, we are at Mach 19.5.
5500.jpg

Look at the unprotected steel just forward of that flap we are watching. Material from the tiles seems to be coating that metal. The unprotected surfaces seem to become more involved with the destructive wind stream as altitude and speed drop. This is the last screen shot from this camera. It lasted for more than two more minutes - during which time it showed controlled flap movement.

At T+57:15 the trouble starts.
This is another camera, another fin, the other side of the ship. The camera is mounted on the top side (protected half) of the ship on the starboard side. It is looking forward and down at the back edge and unprotected side of the starboard forward flap.
We are down to 57Km and Mach 15.7. those white streaks are intense sparks coming out of the aft underside junction of that flap with the side of the ship. But in addition to the bright white sparks, we are seeing some heat effects of the unprotected flap surface. It is just starting to redden.
5715.jpg


The next frame is only 15 seconds later, 1Km lower, and 500 KPH slower. But something abrupt just happened. The bottom edge of the flap, where it meets the ship body, has moved away from the body by an inch or so, tile material was lost, and unprotected steel appears to be in direct contact with the wind stream.
5730.jpg


Below: 45 seconds later, Mach 13.9, 56 Km high. The flap steel has been heating up and flaking off continuously. Its trailing edge is now well-separated from the ship.
But notice something else: There are two black dots in the image - and at this point I need to describe something about the camera. The camera along with its lens are behind a window. As we will see, the camera lens will remain survive. All of the effects that are seen from this point on are with the window - not the lens.
So those black dots are material that has separated from the craft and landed on the window.
5815.jpg


At T+59:06, the window is so coated with material that the view is best discerned by changes in glows, and at that point it starts cracking. This is where the nail-biting starts. The image is almost useless. Last we saw, the craft was doomed. But the telemetry suggests that things are holding together and the Mach number is down to a slow-searing 12.

At T+1:00:30 we see some glimmers of something (hope?) through the broken window (image below).
We are just under Mach 9, still apparently under control, and a pinkish splotch in the middle of the image tells us that the flap has not yet separated. Those light gray areas are cracks in the window where sparks (from the "flap") can still be seen flying by. So how long will things kinda hold together?
6030.jpg


A minute later, we're dropping like a rock but with pitch still stable, the window cracks are bigger, we're just over Mach 6, the Starlink connection is mostly holding, and there is definitely still something there to call a flap.
NASA has noted that the temperatures are coming down fast and the ship is within seconds of maximum aerodynamic pressure.
6130.jpg


At T+1:01:37, the video is lost "Awaiting acquisition of signal".
At T+1:02:24 we get the video back - but it's hard to interpret. We're at Mach 3.5 at 33Km over the Indian Ocean at night. But the window is gone. The only sources of light look like remnant cinders.
6224.jpg

There are pitch maneuvers and then, at T+1:03:05 some light flashes that suggest to me that they may have been using jets to augment the flap control. At T+1:03:20, telemetry shows a drastic pitch down orientation. Previous simulations had shown some pitch down before the main rockets kicked in, but this seemed extreme. It is also possible that that "pitch icon" was just showing something other than a pitch measurement.

We can also make out the flap from time to time - and it appears to be under control.

Next, at T+1:03:58 we see the trailing edge of that forward flap we've been watching lit up by the initial ignition of the main rockets. The slight down pitch is consistent with simulated renditions. The speed is a very tame 722KPH and altitude is 14Km.

Would you believe that I am only allowed to attach 10 photos to this post??
Guess you'll have to watch the next 2.5 minute of the video - to mission end.

Scott
 
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  • #1,294
The RCS is used for slow maneuvering in space, it's useless in the atmosphere. From the time the flaps gain control in the upper atmosphere until the start of the landing burn the ship is purely controlled via its flaps. At 14 km something glowing hot zips past the camera. There is more later.

The first engine use happens at 1:05:39, the ignition of the final landing burn.
.Scott said:
My immediate thought was, "You gotta show me that". With Elon's reputation, you had to believe he could make it work - but still ... like a steam iron?
Transpiration cooling was abandoned - probably too complicated to get the liquid everywhere.

Starship is a useful rocket even without any reuse, and a very competitive rocket with booster reuse. Falcon 9 shows that landing and reusing boosters works, it's going to work for Starship as well.
 
  • #1,295
Once they work out the bugs, it’s absolutely going to be a game changer. I suspect that all the other big players are waiting to see how SpaceX does it, and then they’ll either snap up some of the burned-out engineers that SpaceX uses up almost as fast as Superheavy uses up propellant, or they’ll just use espionage, to get the inside scoop on all the hard lessons. Then they’ll make their own take on it.

ULA is going to have to re-evaluate the entire Vulcan partial reuse system very quickly if they want to be competitive for even DoD contracts.
 
  • #1,296
.Scott said:
By my guesstimate, Starship's remaining development costs are low enough that if the whole thing was sold off, the new owner would find it far more tempting to finish it off than to scrap it.
Well... maybe. Even the Falcon Heavy is needed ~ half decade to ramp up payloads to just a few launch in a year, and I doubt that it could be profitable if it's not built on the Falcon 9.

If not for the new Moon race then I don't think that anybody would pay for the Starship on the market.
It's just too big. Enormous.
 
  • #1,297

Virgin Galactic launches VSS Unity space plane on final suborbital spaceflight with crew of 6 (photos, video)​

It was Virgin Galactic's seventh commercial spaceflight mission and the company's second of 2024.
https://www.space.com/virgin-galactic-07-final-vss-unity-commercial-spaceflight
Virgin Galactic launched six people to suborbital space on Saturday (June 8), launching a Turkish astronaut and three space tourists on what was the final voyage of the VSS Unity space plane.

Unity, attached to the belly of its carrier plane Eve, took off from runway at Spaceport America in New Mexico at 10:31 a.m. EDT (1431 GMT) and carried to an altitude of 44,562 feet (13,582 meters) over the next hour, where it was dropped and ignited its rocket engine to carry two pilots and four passengers to space and back. The mission, called Galactic 07, reached an altitude of 54.4 miles (87.5 km) and marked the seventh commercial spaceflight by Virgin Galactic on Unity, which is being retired to make way for the company's new "Delta" class of spacecraft rolling out in 2026.
 
  • #1,298
Well, that was an interesting afternoon. They were running a simulated medical emergency on the ISS via secure/private comms channels, and part of it slipped into the public live feed. Cue nearly an hour of absolute chaos until NASA issued a tweet saying it was a drill that shouldn’t have made it into that channel.

The sheer number of comments on a live stream taking digs at Boeing and Starliner was equally hilarious and depressing. 🙃
 
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Flyboy said:
They were running a simulated medical emergency on the ISS via secure/private comms channels, and part of it slipped into the public live feed.
In my neck of the woods, when we run emergency drills, we're required to repeat "This is a drill" in our comms. That's because our comms are generally open to anybody who has a compatible receiver, and we don't want folks tuning in during the middle of the drill and hearing the stuff we are transmitting and thinking it is real. I think even if I were transmitting on an encrypted channel, I'd still do that out of habit...
 
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  • #1,300
A sensible precaution. What allowed this one to spiral out of control so quickly was the fact that they promptly went comms dark afterwards for an hour. I personally would have immediately jumped on the public feed to announce the fact that it was a drill as soon as it was noticed instead of relying on a post on Twitter (I refuse to use the new name, thank you very much) to announce it.
 
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The return of Starliner has been moved to no earlier than June 26.
NASA and Boeing are still analyzing the helium leaks. They are in the service module that will burn up on reentry.
Edit: Further delayed to "to be determined". The capsule is only designed for up to 45 days docked to the space station, which means it has to undock and land before July 21 or things are getting really problematic.

Rocket Lab has launched its 50th Electron. It was the fastest commercial rocket to reach that milestone, beating Falcon 9 by a few months in what looks like a similar trajectory.

Chang'e 6 has picked up samples from the far side of the Moon earlier this month and the return capsule is expected to land back on Earth June 25.
 
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pinball1970 said:
You guys catch this over the weekend?

A France China collaboration looking for early GRB.

https://phys.org/news/2024-06-china-france-satellite-universe.html#google_vignette

From the article.

“The rays carry traces of the gas clouds and galaxies they pass through on their journey through space—valuable data for better understanding the history and evolution of the universe.”

View attachment 347343
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/suspected-chinese-rocket-debris-seen-094454719.html
1719236045449.png

Markus Schiller, a rocket expert and associate senior researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, said the debris appeared to be the first-stage booster of the Long March 2C rocket, which uses a liquid propellant consisting of nitrogen tetroxide and unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH).

“This combination always creates these orange smoke trails. It’s extremely toxic and carcinogenic,” Schiller said. “Every living being that inhales that stuff will have a hard time in the near future,” he added.
 
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  • #1,304
Ahhhh, yes, the Long Range BFRC Dispenser. 😆

Hydrazine, which is colorless but has something of a fish smell from what I’ve been told, will kill you on the spot.

The Dinitrogen Tetroxide is the brownish red plume and is able to break down into two nitrogen dioxide, which is the brown component of classic smog. It’s also nasty as it will attack your lungs, and if you get a good lungful of the stuff it’ll kill you in your sleep from your lungs filling with fluid.

Either way, fun stuff. 🙃
 
  • #1,305
Flyboy said:
Ahhhh, yes, the Long Range BFRC Dispenser. 😆

Hydrazine, which is colorless but has something of a fish smell from what I’ve been told, will kill you on the spot.

The Dinitrogen Tetroxide is the brownish red plume and is able to break down into two nitrogen dioxide, which is the brown component of classic smog. It’s also nasty as it will attack your lungs, and if you get a good lungful of the stuff it’ll kill you in your sleep from your lungs filling with fluid.

Either way, fun stuff. 🙃
I would not have posted it if I had seen Nsaspook's information first.
It is on now, so at there is some info on dangerous rocket propellants and launch location strategies in the East and West.
 
  • #1,306
Basically, if the launch photos from China have mountains in the background, you’re guaranteed to hear about the booster(s) crashing back down somewhere near a village. The location was chosen for security and logistics purposes, not downrange safety.
 
  • #1,307
Flyboy said:
Basically, if the launch photos from China have mountains in the background, you’re guaranteed to hear about the booster(s) crashing back down somewhere near a village. The location was chosen for security and logistics purposes, not downrange safety.

+1
I hope the local folk are all OK (including the cleanup crews) from this latest incident of many in the past.

Falling from the Sky (Zhang Zanbo, 2009)
 
  • #1,308
Boeing Starliner astronauts stuck on ISS with no return date so far
https://news.yahoo.com/news/boeing-starliner-astronauts-stuck-iss-010014870.html

Two astronauts who piloted Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft to the International Space Station earlier this month remain aboard the floating research hub with no firm return date to Earth, as NASA and Boeing seek to analyze mechanical issues and clear a schedule for the craft’s return voyage.

“We are taking our time and following our standard mission management team process,” Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program, said in a statement. “We are letting the data drive our decision-making relative to managing the small helium system leaks and thruster performance we observed during rendezvous and docking.”

The Starliner arrived at the ISS on June 6, and the two crew members, Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore were originally scheduled to remain at the space station for a week.

The astronauts won’t return at least through July 2, after a planned ISS spacewalk.

It’s a considerable adjustment from the original Starliner mission plan, which was intended as a showcase launch as Boeing seeks to compete with SpaceX’s Dragon capsule, which has been NASA’s only vehicle ferrying astronauts to the ISS since 2020.
 
  • #1,309
They are not stuck. Starliner could return the astronauts tomorrow, but there is no rush. It can safely stay at the ISS for another month. Time that can be used to further study the leaks, which reduces the risk for this mission and helps avoiding the problem in future missions. If you undock and discard the service module then it's gone.

China made a 10 km hop with a reusable rocket stage. The next flight is planned to reach 70 km where you get into the interesting velocity range of a reentry.

GOES-U goes up (in 9 hours). It's a weather satellite for NASA, to be launched on a Falcon Heavy. A 5 tonne satellite that will be launched directly to geostationary orbit is pretty unusual.

Sunday evening, California and nearby places had a nice space jellyfish from a Falcon 9 launch.
 
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  • #1,310

NASA confirms space debris in North Carolina was from SpaceX Crew Dragon reentry​

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nasa-confirms-space-debris-north-130015327.html

NASA has confirmed that pieces of debris found throughout the mountains of North Carolina are the remnants of SpaceX Crew Dragon hardware that reentered the atmosphere in May 2024.

The largest piece of debris was found along a walking trail of a mountaintop resort on May 22; it was about the size of a standard car hood and covered in a carbon fiber weave. In the weeks following that discovery, several smaller pieces were found in residents' yards throughout the region as well. A map posted to X by astronomer Jonathan McDowell that plotted the reentry of the SpaceX Crew-7 mission's "trunk," or service module, suggested this particular Crew Dragon hardware was likely responsible for the mess. However, it wasn't until June 20, 2024 that NASA confirmed the debris indeed came from a Crew Dragon spacecraft.
 
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  • #1,311
 
  • #1,312
As mundane as recovery is becoming, there’s something about the Heavy boosters returning to shore that is just… it never gets old.
 
  • #1,314
mfb said:
India plans a first uncrewed launch of its Gaganyaan crew vehicle in July, but no date yet.
Good for them! I hope it goes well. That would make them the third country to develop an entirely indigenous crew launch capability. No offense to China, but it’s derived heavily from Soyuz, albeit with some much needed updates.
 
  • #1,315
More Starliner
Starliner CFT: NASA and Boeing have decided to carry out ground tests of a new thruster to mimic the same flight profile that was carried out in orbit when 5 aft-facing thrusters did not operate within pre-set limits specified in the spacecraft's flight control software during the approach to ISS; 4 of the 5 were later successfully test fired in space after the docking; test firings of the ground unit at White Sands, NM, are expected to begin next week
This is a pretty hurried test and it looks like Boeing and NASA will wait for the results.
They are looking into extending the lifetime from 45 days to 90 days.
 
  • #1,316
Space Pioneer, a Chinese start-up, wanted to do a static fire test of their rocket in preparation for the first flight of Tianlong-3. The rocket is about the size of Falcon 9 and is designed with a reusable first stage.

It was ... not as static as planned.
Video
Other view
 
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  • #1,317
Oops. Did they forget to tell the hold-down guy that he should not push that button on this test? Also looks like the self-destruct guy was on a coffee break...
 
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berkeman said:
looks like the self-destruct guy was on a coffee break...
Do they even have the explosives installed for a static fire test?
I would not bother with the steering either...

TBH it's a nice straight ascend for something non-planned :wink:
 
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That was embarrassing.
 
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24 hours 45 minutes until the maiden flight of Ariane 6. Live coverage will be here

It will be the first European orbital launch this year.
* Ariane 5 was retired before Ariane 6 was ready. This helped reusing facilities but it produced a gap in the launcher availability.
* Vega struggles with reliability recently.
* European Soyuz is no longer a thing after the Russian invasion in Ukraine.
* The European start-ups haven't launched yet. Rocket Factory Augsburg wants to launch this summer, but no date yet.
 
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