Stabilizing a bubble in a water tunnel

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around determining the required flow rate to stabilize a bubble in a water tunnel, focusing on the dynamics of bubble behavior under varying flow conditions. Participants explore the relationship between bubble sinking velocity and flow velocity in a tapered tunnel, as well as the calculations necessary for achieving stability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to find the flow rate needed to control the sinking and rising of a bubble, having calculated the sinking velocity without flow.
  • Another participant suggests that the flow velocity can be determined by multiplying the flow velocity by the tunnel's cross-section and the density of water.
  • A participant clarifies that the goal is to stabilize the bubble, indicating that the flow velocity must be adjusted based on the bubble's position in the tapered tunnel.
  • It is proposed that active control or a position-dependent flow velocity may be necessary to maintain bubble stability, as small deviations could lead to instability.
  • One participant expresses the need to calculate the maximum flow velocity for the system to determine the required pump specifications, while also seeking guidance on how to calculate flow velocity based on the tunnel's shape and the bubble's sinking rate.
  • Another participant notes that the flow velocity at the bubble's position must match the bubble's sinking velocity, acknowledging that this velocity may vary across the tunnel's cross-section.
  • A participant requests clarification on calculating drag on a bubble in flow conditions, indicating that the drag calculation depends on the relative velocity of the bubble to the fluid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods for calculating flow velocity and drag, with no consensus reached on the best approach to stabilize the bubble in the water tunnel.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the flow velocity is not constant across the tunnel's cross-section, which may complicate calculations. Additionally, the relationship between the bubble's sinking velocity and the flow velocity remains a point of exploration.

Ninet
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Hello,

I am trying to find the required flow rate for stabilization of a bubble (to control the sinking and rising of bubble) in the water tunnel. I found the velocity of sinking bubble in the water (when the flow rate is zero) but I am not sure how to use that to find flow rate of my system to control the sinking and rising of bubble. I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you.

Here is how I calculated velocity of sinking bubble:

FBD--> W (weight) = D (drag) + B (Buoyancy)

W= γAir * V , V= volume
B= γwater* V
Drag=(1/2)* ρ*U^2* (π/4)*(D^2)*Cd , where ρ= density of Water, U= velocity, D= bubble's diameter and Cd= drag coefficient
Cd (Drag Coefficient)= 24/ Re
Re= ρ*U*D*(1/μ)

U (Velocity) = (SG bubble]-1)*(γwater)*D^2*(1/18)*(1/[μwater)
 
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Maybe I am missing something, but can't you just multiply the flow velocity by the cross-section of the tunnel (and the density of water for mass flow)?
 
Sorry, I think I didn't explain the problem very well. I am trying to determine the the flow velocity in a way that can stabilize a sinking bubble in a tunnel. (Tunnel is tapered and the size is fixed)
 
To make it stable, I guess you'll need some active control, or a position-dependent flow velocity (=a position-dependent width of your tunnel or some other way to change the current flow).
Otherwise, even tiny deviations from the "right" flow will get your bubble to the bottom or the top after a while.
 
well, first I want to calculate the maximum flow velocity in my system to figure out required pump. I am not sure how to calculate the flow velocity based on the shape of the tunnel and the sinking rate of bubble.
 
If you know how fast your bubble sinks without flow, then your flow velocity upwards at the position of the bubble has just to be this velocity. It is not constant over the cross-section, but that's probably an issue that can be sorted out later.

It would help to get more context. Do you have a sketch of the setup?
 
Thank you mfb for your help. I think my calculation for velocity of sinking bubble without flow should be correct. But then as you said when there is a flow the flow velocity changes in different cross section of tunnel. I draw a basic sketch of tunnel and the rectangle in the sketch is the desired range to keep the bubble stable. Also, how can I calculate drag on a bubble when there is a flow?
 

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If the object is sinking without flow, the current position is instable - upwards flow increases with height.

Also, how can I calculate drag on a bubble when there is a flow?
All you need is the velocity relative to the fluid. As the bubble velocity is supposed to be zero, this is just the velocity of the fluid.
 
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