Standard Temperature Notation for Phase Change

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around the lack of standardized terminology for indicating temperature in relation to phase changes, particularly for water. It highlights that phrases like "cooled to 0°C" can lead to ambiguity regarding whether the substance is water or ice without additional context. Participants note that while some shorthand exists in older engineering texts, such as liquidus and solidus notations, there is no widely accepted convention for differentiating states at phase change temperatures. The importance of specifying both the state of the substance and the pressure in scientific discussions is emphasized to avoid misunderstandings. Ultimately, the conversation concludes that a clear shorthand for this differentiation is currently lacking.
CWatters
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Messages
10,544
Reaction score
2,324
°Thought just occurred to me.. Is there a standard way of referring to temperature either of a phase change?

For example if I write..

"1kg of water is cooled from 20°C to 0°C, how much energy was removed?"

...then potentially two answers might be considered correct depending if you include the latent heat or not. In many cases it's obvious because a problem statement might say.. .

"water at 0C is heated...
or
"Ice at 0C is heated...

and "water" or "ice" implies which side of the phase change you are starting from but is there a standard or shorthand way to write (for example) "0°C" that differentiates between one side of the phase change vs the other?
 
Science news on Phys.org
I would interpret the statement as if there was no phase change. If there was a phase change I would say "cooled to 0 °C and frozen".
 
This is an example of a situation in which you just have to specify the situation in more detail than you may think necessary. You would need to include the state of the substance and also, even, the pressure for the experiment - if you wanted it to be an unambiguous question. Orodruin's interpretation was a fair one, in the absence of more information. In the case of water / water vapour there is such a wide possible range of conditions that, unless the ambient pressure is stated, we could be dealing with either or both states, over a huge range of temperatures. Even down to the time needed to boil and egg :smile:.
 
I guess the answer is no then.

I understand phase diagrams and I'm familiar with short hand such as STP for Standard Temperature and Pressure. Was just curious why there seemed to be no short hand for differentiating between the hot or cold side of a phase change.
 
Old books on water and steam engineering do sometimes use a convenient shorthand notation :

Like this : 32 deg F liquidus and 32 deg F solidus .

Usually actually written with subscripts liq or sol behind the F .

Other ones for steam in various conditions including ones like 250 F subscript 0.8 ( where 0.8 is the dryness fraction) .
 
Thanks for that.
 
I need to calculate the amount of water condensed from a DX cooling coil per hour given the size of the expansion coil (the total condensing surface area), the incoming air temperature, the amount of air flow from the fan, the BTU capacity of the compressor and the incoming air humidity. There are lots of condenser calculators around but they all need the air flow and incoming and outgoing humidity and then give a total volume of condensed water but I need more than that. The size of the...
I was watching a Khan Academy video on entropy called: Reconciling thermodynamic and state definitions of entropy. So in the video it says: Let's say I have a container. And in that container, I have gas particles and they're bouncing around like gas particles tend to do, creating some pressure on the container of a certain volume. And let's say I have n particles. Now, each of these particles could be in x different states. Now, if each of them can be in x different states, how many total...
Thread 'Why work is PdV and not (P+dP)dV in an isothermal process?'
Let's say we have a cylinder of volume V1 with a frictionless movable piston and some gas trapped inside with pressure P1 and temperature T1. On top of the piston lay some small pebbles that add weight and essentially create the pressure P1. Also the system is inside a reservoir of water that keeps its temperature constant at T1. The system is in equilibrium at V1, P1, T1. Now let's say i put another very small pebble on top of the piston (0,00001kg) and after some seconds the system...
Back
Top