Symmetry of Orthogonally diagonalizable matrix

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of orthogonal matrices, specifically their diagonalizability and symmetry. Participants explore the implications of linear independence of vectors forming an orthogonal matrix and the conditions under which such matrices can be considered symmetrical.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if the span of vectors in an orthogonal matrix is defined, then the vectors are linearly independent, leading to the conclusion that the matrix is symmetrical.
  • Another participant challenges this claim, stating that the definition of span does not guarantee linear independence without additional information about the dimension of the span.
  • A later reply emphasizes that orthogonal matrices are invertible and that their columns are linearly independent, but questions the initial reasoning regarding symmetry.
  • Further contributions clarify that orthogonal matrices do not necessarily have to be symmetrical, providing examples such as rotation matrices that are orthogonal but not symmetric.
  • Some participants note that while there are symmetric orthogonal matrices, such as the identity matrix, the general case does not imply symmetry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the implications of linear independence from the definition of span and whether orthogonal matrices must be symmetrical. Multiple competing views remain on the conditions for symmetry in orthogonal matrices.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on the dimensionality of the span and the assumptions made about the properties of orthogonal matrices without explicit definitions or conditions stated.

DmytriE
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Can someone confirm or refute my thinking regarding the diagonalizability of an orthogonal matrix and whether it's symmetrical?

A = [b1, b2, ..., bn] | H = Span {b1, b2, ..., bn}. Based on the definition of the span, we can conclude that all of vectors within A are linearly independent. Furthermore, we can then conclude that Rank(A) = n.

If Rank(A) = n then none of the vectors in A can be made as a linear combination of the other n-1 vectors. Since A can be row-reduced to an identity matrix and the transpose of the identity matrix is itself. Can it be concluded that the original matrix A is also symmetrical (AT = A)?
 
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DmytriE said:
Based on the definition of the span, we can conclude that all of vectors within A are linearly independent.
This is incorrect. However, if A is orthogonal, then you can use that an orthogonal matrix is invertible (the transpose is the inverse), and that the columns of an invertible matrix are linearly independent.
 
Fredrik said:
This is incorrect. However, if A is orthogonal, then you can use that an orthogonal matrix is invertible (the transpose is the inverse), and that the columns of an invertible matrix are linearly independent.

When you say that this is incorrect, are you referring to my rational regarding symmetrical matrices or vector linear independence?
 
I was referring to the part of your post that I quoted. There's nothing about the definition of "span" that allows you to conclude that ##\{b_1,\dots,b_n\}## is linearly independent.
 
Fredrik said:
I was referring to the part of your post that I quoted. There's nothing about the definition of "span" that allows you to conclude that ##\{b_1,\dots,b_n\}## is linearly independent.

Unless of course you know somehow that the dimension of ##\text{span}\{b_1,...,b_n\}## is ##n##.
 
DmytriE said:
Can someone confirm or refute my thinking regarding the diagonalizability of an orthogonal matrix and whether it's symmetrical?

A = [b1, b2, ..., bn] | H = Span {b1, b2, ..., bn}.
Do you intend here that H is itself n dimensional? If so, you need to say that. If not, your following statement is not true.

Based on the definition of the span, we can conclude that all of vectors within A are linearly independent. Furthermore, we can then conclude that Rank(A) = n.

If Rank(A) = n then none of the vectors in A can be made as a linear combination of the other n-1 vectors. Since A can be row-reduced to an identity matrix and the transpose of the identity matrix is itself. Can it be concluded that the original matrix A is also symmetrical (AT = A)?
 
Orthogonal matrices are a particular case of unitary matrices, which are in turn a particular case of normal matrices. Any normal matrix ##A## is orthogonally diagonalizable, i.e. represented as ##A=UDU^*##, where ##U## is a unitary and ##D## is diagonal matrix (generally with complex coefficients).

Orthogonal matrices do not need to be symmetric, a rotation matrix $$R_\alpha = \left(\begin{array}{cc} \cos \alpha & -\sin\alpha \\ \sin\alpha & \cos\alpha \end{array}\right)$$ with ##\alpha\ne \pi n## can serve as an example.

On the other hand, there are symmetric orthogonal matrices, for example the identity matrix ##I## or the matrices $$\left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 & 0 \\ 0 &-1 \end{array}\right), \qquad \left(\begin{array}{cc} \cos \alpha & \sin\alpha \\ \sin\alpha &- \cos\alpha \end{array}\right) $$ (the last two matrices are unitarily equivalent).
 

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