Teachers who shouldn't be teachers

[Ivan Seeking]

I first brought you this story Tuesday. The parents of a five-year old found a note in their son's backpack, referring to a "turd" in the classroom. Alongside it, a baggie with that waste. Of course, the boy's parents were shocked...

http://www.kimatv.com/news/local/43493427.html

 

[WhoWee]

If one of my children attended that school, prior to disciplinary action, I'd request the teacher appear before all of the parents, teachers and administrators of the school district to explain their actions and answer all questions posed.

 

[rootX]

http://www.kimatv.com/news/local/43493427.html

 

[edward]

That certainly wasn't the way to deal with the situation.

I do think that this child had probably been disrupting the classroom for some time. The parents were probably aware of the child's behavior.

Their are few options for a teacher to manage difficult children. Spanking was forbidden a long time ago and replaced with the time out room. It was then decided that the time out room may damage the child's self image. We now have the time out chair separated from the rest of the class.

The time out chair can not face a corner.

My wife is an early childhood education consultant. I have heard some pretty wild stories about the antics of young children, and how they were remediated.

The scoop of poop is a new one. The teacher should be fired.

 

[physics girl phd]

That's a new low. I'm sure that teacher will be asked to leave at the end of the year if not sooner. The kid is five... that means kindergarten. At that age children (especially boys) still have frequent toileting issues (my youngest step-son, who is in fourth grade, still has occasional nighttime issues, though they tend to be associated with nervousness -- such as when he is going to visit his biological mother or after he's seen a "scary" movie). This child clearly wasn't prepared for the expectations of school and isn't adjusting well.

The better action would be to continually document the child's behavior's, attempt to take action with the parents to improve behavior, and hold the child back a year (with another teacher the next year) if improvement is not within a given range. The kid's obviously on the younger side of the average in his class... holding him back a year for behavior wouldn't be damaging to his ego at this early point in his education... and probably won't even be much noticed by his peers in the future.

 

[Pengwuino]

I don't get all the fuss about this being a "behavioral" issue. The article makes it sound like he simply isn't potty-trained, far from a behavioral issue in my mind. It is sick though. The teacher is pretty stupid though. I mean come on... really? Were they asleep during their courses on not being a moron when he/she was becoming a teacher?

 

[Moonbear]

This is not just shocking and wrong, but also unhygienic...yuck! I agree, this teacher should not be a teacher if this is the only way she could figure out how to handle a problem of a 5 year old pooping in the wrong place. Maybe she's also not allowing the kids to get up and use the bathroom when they need it for all we know. But, EVEN IF the kid was being spiteful and it wasn't just an accident, you don't send his poop home with him! That's when you call the principal in, or a school counselor, and call a meeting with the parents to meet with all of them, or perhaps require the child get checked by a pediatrician. Maybe he's having problems adjusting to school, maybe he has some form of developmental delay that he really isn't fully potty trained, maybe he has some other disability that is leading him to make inappropriate choices (even for a 5 year old), maybe he has a physical problem that he can't control his bowels properly, maybe the teacher literally scares the s*** out of him...who knows, but the solution requires finding out. And, yes, he may need to be held back a year, or put into a special education classroom if he's not at proper developmental milestones or isn't adjusting to the regular classroom.

 

[turbo]

I wonder if some other incidents preceded this one... The teacher's behavior was not acceptable, but it may have been the "breaking point" for her after a long string of unresolved problems with the kid and his parents. Certainly, defecating on the floor of a classroom is not "normal" behavior even for a 5-year-old.

 

[Cyrus]

This is appalling behavior on the part of the teacher. A 5 year old is wayyy to young to treat like that.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't think that treatment is appropriate at any age.

 

[edward]

Since this was apparently an on going problem, the first thing both the teacher and the parents needed to do was have a conference and rule out a medical disorder.

 

[Pengwuino]

Since this was apparently an on going problem, the first thing both the teacher and the parents needed to do was have a conference and rule out a medical disorder.

For the kid or the teacher?

 

[turbo]

For the kid or the teacher?

Yes!

 

[junglebeast]

The kid was most likely just trying to make trouble by dropping his drawers and taking a dump in the classroom. The best way to make a kid learn is by making them feel ashamed of their own misbehavior...that's a lot more effective than traditional methods of punishment which just try to take away something that they like (such as recess). The latter form of punishment only causes the child to become more angry at the person who prescribed the punishment and make them want to get revenge, without causing them to look inwards and realize why they shouldn't have misbehaved in the first place. So I think this punishment will teach the kid a valuable lesson and probably straighten him out for a while.

 

[Cyrus]

The kid was most likely just trying to make trouble by dropping his drawers and taking a dump in the classroom. The best way to make a kid learn is by making them feel ashamed of their own misbehavior...that's a lot more effective than traditional methods of punishment which just try to take away something that they like (such as recess). The latter form of punishment only causes the child to become more angry at the person who prescribed the punishment and make them want to get revenge, without causing them to look inwards and realize why they shouldn't have misbehaved in the first place. So I think this punishment will teach the kid a valuable lesson and probably straighten him out for a while.

...no.

 

[rootX]

The kid was most likely just trying to make trouble by dropping his drawers and taking a dump in the classroom. The best way to make a kid learn is by making them feel ashamed of their own misbehavior...

Would a 5yrs old have sense of shame? I don't know when we usually get feelings of guilt or shame (my guess is around 9).

 

[edward]

Making a child feel shame is seldom used anymore. Discipline is all about positive and negative reinforcement A happy face = good. A frowning face = bad.

And apparently this is not a first.

Teacher Sends Boy Home With Feces in Bag
Posted on: Saturday, 25 September 2004, 06:00 CDT

DALLAS - A teacher is on paid administrative leave after sending a first-grader home with feces in his backpack because the boy soiled the classroom floor.

The teacher apparently was frustrated with the 6-year-old student's actions so she wrapped up the waste and sent it home with the boy Tuesday along with a note, Dallas school district spokesman Donald Claxton said.

Claxton declined to identify the teacher at Gabe P. Allen Elementary School.

"It generally appears the teacher was trying to help raise awareness with the family," Claxton said. "It's just an unfortunate incident. Unfortunately, she took this course of action."

http://www.redorbit.com/news/oddities/88795/teacher_sends_boy_home_with_feces_in_bag/

 

[Pinu7]

This reminds me of one time that I pooped in kindergarten. That is my preeminent memory from that age. I never forgot it.

Having a teacher do this to their student at this age may cause irreparable psychological harm.

The teacher should be spanked.

The kid was most likely just trying to make trouble by dropping his drawers and taking a dump in the classroom.

Five year olds are not able to scheme like that. He won't do that as an antic.

 

[rootX]

Having a teacher do this to their student at this age may cause irreparable psychological harm.

The teacher should be spanked.

While teacher took a stupid decision, but there's no big deal about it.

Five year olds are not able to scheme like that. He won't do that as an antic.

Yes, children are harmless angels.

I remember reading a month ago that children are becoming eccentric and over confident because of the current education system. And sometimes, they are unable to fit in the real world due to that. I don't remember the exact context.

 

[turbo]

Funny. I attended Kindergarten with a bunch of other kids who lived (like me) in the poorest town around. Probably half the kids lived in houses with running water. Many fewer had hot and cold running water. My family had to heat water on a cooking-range, so we had "warm" baths in the winter and cold baths in the summer. About 50% of my schoolmates had outhouses, not toilets. A couple had toilets that were flushed with water hand-pumped from the kitchen sink and lugged to the toilet with a pail.

As in lots of very poor communities, there were plenty of fatherless families, families that were subject to domestic violence and alcoholism. Not a single child defecated on the floor, and we always said yes or no ma'am to our teachers. I always had to walk back home for lunch because my parents couldn't afford 15 cents for a hot lunch at school. Perhaps our respect for our teachers stemmed from the amenities we got at school. It was so nice to be able to have a hot shower in the winter after gym class. Heaven!

 

[rootX]

Funny. I attended Kindergarten with a bunch of other kids who lived (like me) in the poorest town around. Probably half the kids lived in houses with running water. Many fewer had hot and cold running water. My family had to heat water on a cooking-range, so we had "warm" baths in the winter and cold baths in the summer. About 50% of my schoolmates had outhouses, not toilets. A couple had toilets that were flushed with water hand-pumped from the kitchen sink and lugged to the toilet with a pail.

But even now, there are so many countries where children don't have these facilities (or even education). Particular when I think of war torn nations children, these kind of incidents look like jokes

 

[turbo]

But even now, there are so many countries where children don't have these facilities (or even education).

I know! Would such children who had access to education disrespect their teacher by violating very strong interpersonal and societal mores? There's more to this story than meets the eye.

 

[Cyrus]

But even now, there are so many countries where children don't have these facilities (or even education). Particular when I think of war torn nations children, these kind of incidents look like jokes

This inciden't wasn't a joke.

 

[drankin]

If a kid is "dropping drawers" in the middle of class, what are the teachers options? I wonder how many times it took before the teacher got tired of cleaning up the damage. Then decided that potty training and associated disciplining wasn't in his/her job description. I imagine there is more to the story. A little humiliation can go a long way to correct such behaviours.

 

[turbo]

This inciden't wasn't a joke.

Cy, would a 5-year-old child from your culture pull down his pants and defecate in a public room? I think not. I was brought up poor, but I swear you could walk into the homes of the French-Canadian immigrant families and eat off the floors.

Vengeance is mine, saith the lord? Hah! There is no force on Earth like a French-Canadian great-aunt who demands an explanation for your behavior and finds you lacking. Very giving and loving people who expect the same back from young and old.

 

[rootX]

This inciden't wasn't a joke.

The teacher misconducted and should be punished accordingly. But, media focus and reaction this is getting are essentially a joke.

 

[Cyrus]

The teacher misconducted and should be punished accordingly. But, media focus and reaction this is getting are essentially a joke.

Why is it a 'joke' that the media is upset a teacher put a bag of **** in a kids backpack and sent the kid home?

 

[Cyrus]

Cy, would a 5-year-old child from your culture pull down his pants and defecate in a public room? I think not. I was brought up poor, but I swear you could walk into the homes of the French-Canadian immigrant families and eat off the floors.

Vengeance is mine, saith the lord? Hah! There is no force on Earth like a French-Canadian great-aunt who demands an explanation for your behavior and finds you lacking. Very giving and loving people who expect the same back from young and old.

If the child had problems, yes. Your premise about 'culture' is wrong because a 5 year old just isn't old enough to follow cultural norms. Any 5 year old with problems could do this - I don't care where they are from or what era they grew up.

 

[Moonbear]

Cy, would a 5-year-old child from your culture pull down his pants and defecate in a public room? I think not. I was brought up poor, but I swear you could walk into the homes of the French-Canadian immigrant families and eat off the floors.

We don't even know, exactly, what the child did. These are assumptions that he was being spiteful or disrespectful or that it had happened more than once. 5 year-olds do strange things.

When I was in school, kids were supposed to be potty trained before starting kindergarten, that was one of the requirements to let them start school. But, that didn't mean there weren't kids in my class who still needed help with having their bottoms wiped (I remember because my mom had made a big fuss about telling me before I started school that I had to know how to do it all myself without help once I was in school, and didn't understand why the other kids didn't have to follow that rule too). But, I'm sure that once in a while, one slips through the cracks, or still has accidents.

Maybe the kid does have something wrong with him...a developmental delay. Humiliating him by sending him home with his feces in his backpack is not a good way to deal with such a problem. And, if the parents are at fault for not addressing a problem behavior, again, humiliating the child for his parents' deficiencies is not an appropriate action.

As I already said before, we don't know the circumstances. When a teacher is capable of something so nasty as sending a kid home with feces, for all we know, the kid asked to use the potty and was denied and when matters got urgent, did the only thing a 5 year old might think to do.

 

[junglebeast]

Would a 5yrs old have sense of shame? I don't know when we usually get feelings of guilt or shame (my guess is around 9).

Uh...no. We're talking about a 5 year old boy here not a fetus. I have several relatives in this age range and they definitely can feel the emotion of shame. I was also quite a trouble maker in my day, and was nearly expelled from grade school for misbehaving, so I'm quite familiar with the typical disciplinary methods...and their inefficiency. Whenever I was sent to the office, it just made me want to lash out more. The only things that really worked on me was making me feel shame for my actions. I still remember those things I felt deeply shamed for to this day and I attribute them partially to my turn-around in becoming a good student.

 

[rootX]

Why is it a 'joke' that the media is upset a teacher put a bag of **** in a kids backpack and sent the kid home?

1) That's one sided and uncomplete story
2) It did not harm the child in any way
3) There can more worse stories to focus on like a teacher killing a 11 yrs old for not doing homework or children dying of poor hygiene in Africa

 

[Cyrus]

1) That's one sided and uncomplete story
2) It did not harm the child in any way
3) There can more worse stories to focus on like a teacher killing a 11 yrs old for not doing homework or children dying of poor hygiene in Africa

I find your rationalization distasteful.

 

[rootX]

i find your rationalization distasteful.

#3? ...

I read them sometime ago.

 

[Cyrus]

#3? ...

I read them sometime ago.

Ok, and...?

The rationalization was comment number two and three you made on your list.

 

[Focus]

If a kid is "dropping drawers" in the middle of class, what are the teachers options? I wonder how many times it took before the teacher got tired of cleaning up the damage. Then decided that potty training and associated disciplining wasn't in his/her job description. I imagine there is more to the story. A little humiliation can go a long way to correct such behaviours.

I completely agree, some parents are a pain. I am not a teacher but I know storied about parents who constantly blame the school for their kids outrageous behavior.