First please read my reply to Tom above as you both put forth a number of the same arguments. Next that energy is all there is actually makes my point easier to make it we can agree that even within a materialistic paradigm, thought and thinking does exist.Originally posted by Mumeishi
Woah! There's some serious flaws in your argument there friend.
Premise 1: According to the materialist view, all things are either matter or energy.
Premise 2: Thought exists
Premise 3: Thought is 'obviously' not matter
Conclusion: Therefore thought is energy
First of all, there is a variety of materialist views. Anyway, to be more precise, there is only energy, since matter is just a particularform of energy (how does that affect your argument?)
Mentat would not allow me that luxury. I had to show that thoughts were the result of electrochemical activity of the brain and thus electrochemical energy, a result of material processes so that they would be allowed to exists in his materialistic world.
Unfortunately information does not exist ether in mantat's materialistic world. A number of us have tried to get across that very point but were unable to.
Secondly, the materialist view that all that exists is energy and matter is not necessarily correct. And is it clear that they mean that this is the only sort of property that exists - the only defining characteristics to describe reality, or could they just mean that this is the only fundamental sort of 'substance'? To illustrate my question, what is the difference between a 20kg mountain bike and a 20kg microwave oven? The answer is form, or organisation. What is the difference between a 1kJoule telephone message wishing you luck and a 1kJ telephone message of abuse? Again the answer is form, organisation or information.
I would argue that mental states are informational properties of the brain. It doesn't really matter what the brain is composed of, all that matters is the information it has and what it does with it.
I did not say, or at least mean to say, that matter produces energy'
I think you are confused. Matter does not produce energy. Matter is energy, and energy only changes form it is neither created nor destroyed.
What I meant was the the brain work with electrochemical energy and converts it or modifies this energy by impress or encoding information on it. In order to make any point or discuss at all with Mentat I was forced to argue totally within the strict materialistic view and limits that he created.
This I have not yet figured out myself. I had enough problem coming up with how the subjective realm of thought can effect the objective material realm of matter.
Hmmm... How would they interact anyway? By the way, energy is not 'spiritual' any more than matter is - it is 100% physical.
Like what? Anecdotes don't count for much in the world of science, except inspiration to start collecting real data parhaps.
That is why this is philosophy and not science. This is the philosophy section of the Physics forum and not one of the scientific
sections or boards.